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Author Topic: FM Stage 2 fans  (Read 30301 times)
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joeereid
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Posts: 1156



« on: January 04, 2013, 06:16:56 AM »

  I've done some research (thank you search function) and am planning on getting the FM stage 2 set-up for my stock rad, stock ECU, soon to have a larger intercooler '05 MSM. On the rare occasions we get hot weather track days around here I don't like seeing my temp gauge move in the afternoon sessions. Is there a newer "trick" set-up out there that might be worth looking into or is the FM2 the current standard by which all others are judged?
  I've read FM's install instructions and it sounds like it should bolt right up to the stock rad w/o any issues other than the spacers and gasket(?). I read in some old threads about wiring/operation concerns ie; parallel vs. dual wiring to get around the  dual-speed, triple relay,AC, stock ECU circuitry. What is the consensus on the optimum wiring and how bad is the idle drop running them parallel? Do they come with any sort of OEM matching connector or do I need to hack into the wiring harness with FLAPS connectors? Anyone know where to get the appropriate M/F OEM connector that would plug right into the harness or do you just cut the ones off the stock fans?
 I'm not making alot of HP at 9.5 lbs/boost but I know that when the temp needle moves it's not good and I don't want to be needing a head gasket at 2:00 in the afternoon on a trackday, 50 miles or more from home.

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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
mr_hyde
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Posts: 7213


Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 08:31:50 AM »

When I had these in the MSM (now on '90MSM) I had cut the OEM wires to make the connection.  I suppose a wrecking yard might have the connector although IIRC, the MSM fans are unique.  I wonder if you know anyone who has an MSM wiring harness?  Hmm...   laugh

Still, the business end you need would be on the MSM fans, not the harness so you'd be searching mouser for the connectors.  In addition to the fans, make sure you have done everything you can to duct the radiator and intercooler on the front side so every drop (figurative) of air entering the front of the car is forced through the radiator and/or intercooler.  Air will go wherever it is easiest so if you are going 110mph, you want 110mph air hitting your radiator and having nowhere else to go but through it. 

Since you are on a stock ECU, you might consider a Scangauge/PLX or similar to give you actual temp readings.  Sometimes I feel like it would be nice on '90MSM and other times I'm glad I don't know...   shockeyes
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
millsj
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 02:30:57 PM »

I cut the wires when I installed the FM fans.  I do get a little idle drop when the fans get on, but it's no big deal.  It might catch you off guard the first couple of times it happens.  I would find it hard to believe that there are any other fans on the market that move more air than the FM fans.  You'll understand once you get them installed.   Shocked

FM has good directions, but I also did a write-up on the crossflow and fan installation.  If you are just doing the fans, just skip to the second half of the thread.
http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25105.0.html

+2 on Hyde's recommendation on getting something to get water temps from OBDII.  I believe here are some bluetooth devices that connect to a smartphone.  If my temps are climbing, I want to see it happening before the temp gauge starts to climb. 
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
yenadar
2005 #36 Black Mica
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Posts: 1169


« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 02:55:41 PM »

+1 on bluetooth data.

OBD-Key bluetooth dongle, Xoom android tablet running Torque, floor mount. Wires are reduced since this pic, just have the tablet power cord there now.

Also gives me navigation, tunes, weather (no top down surprises!) and loads of resources if I am bored while waiting to pick up my wife, or resources to understand a problem if I run into trouble.


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Keeping the MSM for the forseeable future.
Last mod: FM2 2560 conversion
Zoli007
Third Gear
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Posts: 137


« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 06:45:05 PM »

Do you have any advice or write ups on how to perform this ducting?

When I had these in the MSM (now on '90MSM) I had cut the OEM wires to make the connection.  I suppose a wrecking yard might have the connector although IIRC, the MSM fans are unique.  I wonder if you know anyone who has an MSM wiring harness?  Hmm...   laugh

Still, the business end you need would be on the MSM fans, not the harness so you'd be searching mouser for the connectors.  In addition to the fans, make sure you have done everything you can to duct the radiator and intercooler on the front side so every drop (figurative) of air entering the front of the car is forced through the radiator and/or intercooler.  Air will go wherever it is easiest so if you are going 110mph, you want 110mph air hitting your radiator and having nowhere else to go but through it. 

Since you are on a stock ECU, you might consider a Scangauge/PLX or similar to give you actual temp readings.  Sometimes I feel like it would be nice on '90MSM and other times I'm glad I don't know...   shockeyes
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millsj
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Posts: 2575



« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 04:52:47 PM »

There are a number of threads on Miataturbo.net on ducting the radiator.  You will just have to search a little.
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
toy 4 every season
Back in the saddle again
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 3010



« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 09:03:36 PM »

You don't have to cut the stock wiring harness if you use the correct gauge wire taps. There is a slight issue if using a Mishimoto radiator but that's Mishimoto's fault, not FM.  I only have the stage 1 & its impressive.
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Spring & Fall: 05 Mazdaspeed Miata (Lava) #540 of 1428 - TurboXS MBC, FM Intake & TB, GFB recir BOV, Rear Poly Bushings, Voodoo Magnum Shift Knob, Autometer Boost Gauge, AuxMod, eBay Catless DP, eBay intercooler, Real OPG & Linear Temp Mod, Mishimoto Radiator, FM Stage 1 Fan kit, Alutec Rear Strut Tower Brace, FM O2 Modifier, FM Stage 1 clutch w/ 10.3lbs flywheel, FM Frame Rails, LRB splash guard,  Custom LED 3rd brake light, Optima red top battery
Winter: 08 Jeep Liberty (Kill Wagon) Euro mod blackouted tail lights, Jk winch bumper on custom mounts, 3.5" OME lift, Treadwright Guard Dog tires, Curt hitch, K&N filter, Optima red top battery, factory fogs added & custom fender mounted Hella 500 spot lights.
Summer: 05 Kawasaki ZX6-R (Blue Streak) Yoshimura Rs5 carbon fiber slip on, carbon fiber body panels, HIDs, stainless steel brake lines.
For Fun: 02 Suzuki Quad King 300 4x4 w/ plow, K&N filter, dynojet jet kit, utility lights, 2000lb winch on custom brackets
In the works: 1979 Bradley GTII kit car and a Kawasaki B8 motorcycle
mr_hyde
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 7213


Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 05:16:34 AM »

There are a number of threads on Miataturbo.net on ducting the radiator.  You will just have to search a little.

You basically build a box on the front of the radiator so all of the air coming in the mouth is forced through the radiator.  Otherwise pick your adverb and the air will do it instead.  I have seen it done with duct tape and torn up cardboard at the track or aluminum sheets carefully shaped on a brake (or is it a break?) and riveted in place.
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
joeereid
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 1156



« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 08:14:47 AM »

It's Brake, until you realize you should have done the other bend first and the one you just did should go the other way but then it won't fit in the brake for the other bend, then it's "break" for a run for more material...
I looked into the ducting process... some interesting approaches out there. I was especially inspired by the guy that used a plastic Home Depot tote to take advantage of the pre-formed bends. Looks like a nice time-consuming project that I'll tackle when I put in my new 23.5x7x2.5 intercooler.
   I imagine the easiest place to start would be with the radiator top panel. The GarageStar version (@$80) looks like a nice mid-price option although I don't know if it actually performs any better than the $40 one available elsewhere. The BeatRush ($130) is too blingy for me. There's also the MSM bottom scoop from Goodwin but that looks like it might have some ground clearance issues.
 I think I may have found a source for the connector that matches the one that is integral with the stock fans. http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/SMSL/smsl.html. The part is a 4 position Sumitomo 6181-0439, S-L series. I was searching this guy's site and on his home page it shows his new toy is a miata! Email inquiry sent. The proper connector would make for a much cleaner,weather-proof install than wire taps.

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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
mr_hyde
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 7213


Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 09:06:03 AM »

Nice find Joey!  If it pans out, send the info to Keith so they can incorporate it into the kit. A true P&P fan package would be popular. Wink
Logged

2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
joeereid
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 1156



« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 03:59:36 PM »

Well he's sold his miata but confirms there were lots of the Grey Sumitomo SL connectors under the hood. I'll place a guinea pig order once I determine what gauge wire(s) are used in the harness. The fan connector appears to have 2 different sizes. 
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
joeereid
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1156



« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 04:44:16 PM »

After some serious researching I was able to track down the fan housing connector. Sumitomo RS Series, PN 6188-0558. I have some "prototyping samples" on their way... we'll see
 In regards to the parallel wiring set-up, are both fans running thru only 1 relay? Which of the 2 fan connectors are they paralleled to? 
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
SilverMiataRacer
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WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 06:26:56 PM »

If you have an OEM ECU and follow the FM instructions both fans turn on at the same time but they are not sharing a relay.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

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newold_m
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 533


« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 07:43:56 PM »

I'll be interested in a plug in connector too that has fans running in parallel..
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'04 MSM: sold
joeereid
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1156



« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 12:40:49 AM »

If you have an OEM ECU and follow the FM instructions both fans turn on at the same time but they are not sharing a relay.
Does the "idle dip" occur when wired per FM instructions or only when fans are wired in parallel?
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
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