Mazda-speed.com
November 17, 2019, 06:17:02 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Mazda-speed.com is no longer open and is now a read-only site. For Mazdaspeed Miata discussions, please visit the Mazdaspeed section on Miata.net.
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: MS or other ECUs and the OBDII port  (Read 4638 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ECEng
First Gear
*
Posts: 21


« on: August 24, 2015, 01:16:13 AM »

So I've heard that using a megasquirt unit or something like the hydra ecus render the OBDII port useless in these cars.  Is that 100% true, or is there still come capability left?  I am looking into a data logger unit such as the AiM Solo DL unit, these read using the OBDII port for wheel speed sensors, throttle, and other signals off the open CAN bus. 

Thing is, these units are 400 bucks, and I really don't want to spend that if I'm just going to slap in a new ECU in a year or so, rendering all of my expensive data logging stuff useless.
Logged
Maduh
M-S.com Guinea pig.
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 3991


Herp Derp.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2015, 01:47:05 AM »

Yes the obd2 port becomes useless.

Check this out: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/megasquirt_displays_and_dataloggers.html
Logged

RIP #361 05' Black Mica Mazdaspeed mx-5, swap in progress to 1999 Miata Base. Follow my build thread here: http://tinyurl.com/pwtx3f9
Nevyn72
Third Gear
***
Posts: 176


« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 02:22:56 AM »

I believe the only aftermarket ECU that has the OBDII port enabled is the new Haltech Elite series. I'm not sure what functionality is enabled/available though....

Adaptronic looked into it but decided it wasn't worth it or necessary as all the information and more was available via a direct connection to the ECU by a laptop.
Logged
Maduh
M-S.com Guinea pig.
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 3991


Herp Derp.


WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2015, 03:07:23 AM »

MS has a board you can add that gives data functionality. I think it was only compatible with Reverent built ecu's though.

Also for the record the people who read this thread thinking we're talking about these standalone ecu's providing OBDII functionality to pass emissions, that is not the case. There are no standalone options that can pass emission inspection. This is simply for data to talk with the lap timers.
Logged

RIP #361 05' Black Mica Mazdaspeed mx-5, swap in progress to 1999 Miata Base. Follow my build thread here: http://tinyurl.com/pwtx3f9
rstange1
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 637



« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2015, 03:43:03 AM »

I can't speak for all aftermarket ECUs, but it's pretty simple to make the Hydra talk to your OBDII port if your Hydra is CANbus equipped (I think all of the 2.7 units are). I've done this and have a ScanGauge connected to my OBDII port. The ScanGauge is mounted out of the way above my rear view mirror and gives me four additional digital gauges that I can easily customize to my current situation. Normally I monitor coolant temperature, voltage, air temperature, and also display corrected speed in km/hr. With the Hydra, the ScanGauge will even report boost, which is not possible with the factory ECU. The ScanGauge also has some extended X-Gauge parameters you can program in that are handy for track events (e.g., tell tale displays for maximum RPM, maximum coolant temperature and such). It is very handy and getting it all working only involved some quick configuration in the Nemesis software and running two wires from the Hydra to the OBDII port. Needless to say, you can't pull DTCs from the Hydra, nor will it allow you to pass an emissions check that utilizes OBDII -- but the reporting capabilities are quite impressive.
Logged

'05 Ti MSM with: Flyin' Miata Downpipe, Midpipe, Exhaust | Hydra 2.7 ECU w/KO Racing tune | Deatschwerks 700cc Injectors | Turbosmart Manual Boost Controller | BEGi Cool Air Intake, Intercooler, Throttle Inlet | Forge Bypass Valve | FCM Elite Coilovers | Racing Beat 1.125" Tubular Front Sway Bar | Whiteline Endlinks | Enkei 15x8 PF01s | Hankook 225/45 R-S3s | Hard Dog HCHTDD Roll Bar | MiataRoadster Short Shift Kit | Audiovox Cruise Control | Sylfex AuxMod | VDO Boost Gauge | ScanGauge II | BlendMount | Cocomats
Chrisbee
Fourth Gear
****
Posts: 254


« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2015, 06:02:41 AM »

I can't speak for all aftermarket ECUs, but it's pretty simple to make the Hydra talk to your OBDII port if your Hydra is CANbus equipped (I think all of the 2.7 units are). I've done this and have a ScanGauge connected to my OBDII port. The ScanGauge is mounted out of the way above my rear view mirror and gives me four additional digital gauges that I can easily customize to my current situation. Normally I monitor coolant temperature, voltage, air temperature, and also display corrected speed in km/hr. With the Hydra, the ScanGauge will even report boost, which is not possible with the factory ECU. The ScanGauge also has some extended X-Gauge parameters you can program in that are handy for track events (e.g., tell tale displays for maximum RPM, maximum coolant temperature and such). It is very handy and getting it all working only involved some quick configuration in the Nemesis software and running two wires from the Hydra to the OBDII port. Needless to say, you can't pull DTCs from the Hydra, nor will it allow you to pass an emissions check that utilizes OBDII -- but the reporting capabilities are quite impressive.
I would be very interested in all the details for getting this kinda thing set up with my Hydra 2.7! If you have the information, or can provide the source for this information, that would be awesome!
Logged

2004 TI #3021. Purchased Oct. 2014 with 56k miles.

Engine: FM 2 kit with Hydra 2.7, 700cc injectors, and full 3" exhaust.
FM Crossflow radiator w/stage 2 airflow kit.
Suspension: Fox Racing with FM sway bars.
Wheels: 15x8 Enkei PF01s running 215/50 BFG G-force Sports.
Misc: Custom Speedhut boost gauge in place of stock oil pressure gauge. Temp gauge mod. ScanGaugeII. Blue instrument panel lights. Eclipse dash vents.

Definitely a work in progress!
rstange1
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 637



« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2015, 01:20:47 PM »

I would be very interested in all the details for getting this kinda thing set up with my Hydra 2.7! If you have the information, or can provide the source for this information, that would be awesome!
I'd be happy to do that. I'll gather my notes and create a new post in the FAQ and How To section -- hopefully this evening. Stay tuned...
Logged

'05 Ti MSM with: Flyin' Miata Downpipe, Midpipe, Exhaust | Hydra 2.7 ECU w/KO Racing tune | Deatschwerks 700cc Injectors | Turbosmart Manual Boost Controller | BEGi Cool Air Intake, Intercooler, Throttle Inlet | Forge Bypass Valve | FCM Elite Coilovers | Racing Beat 1.125" Tubular Front Sway Bar | Whiteline Endlinks | Enkei 15x8 PF01s | Hankook 225/45 R-S3s | Hard Dog HCHTDD Roll Bar | MiataRoadster Short Shift Kit | Audiovox Cruise Control | Sylfex AuxMod | VDO Boost Gauge | ScanGauge II | BlendMount | Cocomats
rotorglow
Toyotae non carborundum.
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 2699


« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2015, 01:45:52 PM »

Hydra 2.7 boxes are CANbus *capable* but you need to buy the feature to enable it.
Logged

2004 VR Sport: FM Big Enchilada w/ Hydra 2.7 + DeatschWerks 700cc injectors + FM crossflow rad + 3.63 rear gears + ES poly diff bushings + comp motor mounts--Koni Sports + Ground Control 550/375 + Racing Beat 1.125" bar + blocks & bolts--Wilwood/AX6 brakes--15x8 6ULs + RE-71Rs--Speedhut + Clearwaters + Auxmod + other misc electrics
Reverant
First Gear
*
Posts: 38



« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2015, 02:02:14 PM »

The V5.0+ Enhanced MS2s have an OBD-II output.

You can also add OBD-II to an MS2/MS3 ECU with the CAN bus module from TrackSpeed Engineering: http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/Engine-Management/MSLabs-CAN-Wideband-Module.html
Logged

ECEng
First Gear
*
Posts: 21


« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2015, 02:36:25 PM »

Thanks for all the fast replies!  A lot of good info and different routes to take.

Since I was originally looking at an MS unit, could you answer a question for me Reverent? Or anyone else that may have knowledge on this.  Data loggers like the AiM Solo uses the CAN bus and I hear they require you to select a vehicle with the logger, I assume this is for the decryption of CAN signals (from hex signals to something the logger can make sense of).  However, if you are now routing everything through something like the V5 MS2s, does the new ECU change the signal encryption or modify them in a way that won't be recognized by a data logger?  Will the data logger, set to a MSM, still be able to read all the data such as wheel speeds, steering wheel angle, accelerometers, etc?

If I'm misunderstanding something or missing something about how the CAN  bus is handled in these cars, please let me know.  All my experience with CAN is with brand new cars, where I am already given a file that encrypts the hex data.  The vehicles I test also are fully loaded with some the latest features and modules...  I've never looked into a vehicle built in 04 or earlier.
Logged
rstange1
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 637



« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 02:47:44 PM »

Hydra 2.7 boxes are CANbus *capable* but you need to buy the feature to enable it.

I believe this was the case when Hydra originally released CANbus interface back in 2011. However, The Hydra 2.7 I purchased from Flyin' Miata in September 2014 had CANbus enabled out of the box at no extra charge. 
Logged

'05 Ti MSM with: Flyin' Miata Downpipe, Midpipe, Exhaust | Hydra 2.7 ECU w/KO Racing tune | Deatschwerks 700cc Injectors | Turbosmart Manual Boost Controller | BEGi Cool Air Intake, Intercooler, Throttle Inlet | Forge Bypass Valve | FCM Elite Coilovers | Racing Beat 1.125" Tubular Front Sway Bar | Whiteline Endlinks | Enkei 15x8 PF01s | Hankook 225/45 R-S3s | Hard Dog HCHTDD Roll Bar | MiataRoadster Short Shift Kit | Audiovox Cruise Control | Sylfex AuxMod | VDO Boost Gauge | ScanGauge II | BlendMount | Cocomats
ECEng
First Gear
*
Posts: 21


« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 02:53:55 PM »

Well I did a little more reading online and noted several sources saying the OBD2 in pre 2005 miatas only have a 1hz refresh rate.  Okay for diagnostics, but any sort of data logging with the CAN bus is rendered useless.

Can anyone confirm this for the mazdaspeeds?  I know the bus talks way faster than that, ABS needs it, so I wonder why the output on the port is limited to 1hz instead of something like a 500hz rate?
Logged
Reverant
First Gear
*
Posts: 38



« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 03:11:29 PM »

Thanks for all the fast replies!  A lot of good info and different routes to take.

Since I was originally looking at an MS unit, could you answer a question for me Reverent? Or anyone else that may have knowledge on this.  Data loggers like the AiM Solo uses the CAN bus and I hear they require you to select a vehicle with the logger, I assume this is for the decryption of CAN signals (from hex signals to something the logger can make sense of).  However, if you are now routing everything through something like the V5 MS2s, does the new ECU change the signal encryption or modify them in a way that won't be recognized by a data logger?  Will the data logger, set to a MSM, still be able to read all the data such as wheel speeds, steering wheel angle, accelerometers, etc?

If I'm misunderstanding something or missing something about how the CAN  bus is handled in these cars, please let me know.  All my experience with CAN is with brand new cars, where I am already given a file that encrypts the hex data.  The vehicles I test also are fully loaded with some the latest features and modules...  I've never looked into a vehicle built in 04 or earlier.

I know the AiM MXL, MXL2, MXG natively supported the MS2 and MS3 ECUs without the needs for a module; the module is only needed if you want to communicate through the OBD-II protocol (ie you want to use a ScanGauge or the Torque app on your phone)
Logged

Reverant
First Gear
*
Posts: 38



« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2015, 03:13:48 PM »

Well I did a little more reading online and noted several sources saying the OBD2 in pre 2005 miatas only have a 1hz refresh rate.  Okay for diagnostics, but any sort of data logging with the CAN bus is rendered useless.

Can anyone confirm this for the mazdaspeeds?  I know the bus talks way faster than that, ABS needs it, so I wonder why the output on the port is limited to 1hz instead of something like a 500hz rate?

The stock OBD-II port uses a single wire at 10.4KBps for comms, this is very slow. The module uses a 2-wire 500KBps CAN format, that is much, much faster.
Logged

rotorglow
Toyotae non carborundum.
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 2699


« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 03:19:38 PM »

Hydra 2.7 boxes are CANbus *capable* but you need to buy the feature to enable it.

I believe this was the case when Hydra originally released CANbus interface back in 2011. However, The Hydra 2.7 I purchased from Flyin' Miata in September 2014 had CANbus enabled out of the box at no extra charge. 

Could be, but there's no info on the website about it (either way).  They were having periodic discounts on CAN bus and FlexFuel add-ons as late as 2012 and 2013 after I got mine, and some of those features may be wrapped into the higher versions of the box (above the typical Gamma), so the extra cost might have been hidden in the cost of a higher level.  

Just dropped them a line to get the scoop for sure.
Logged

2004 VR Sport: FM Big Enchilada w/ Hydra 2.7 + DeatschWerks 700cc injectors + FM crossflow rad + 3.63 rear gears + ES poly diff bushings + comp motor mounts--Koni Sports + Ground Control 550/375 + Racing Beat 1.125" bar + blocks & bolts--Wilwood/AX6 brakes--15x8 6ULs + RE-71Rs--Speedhut + Clearwaters + Auxmod + other misc electrics
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Copyright 2007-2016, Eunos Communications LLC