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Mazdaspeed Archive => Pics and Video => Topic started by: mr_hyde on October 08, 2011, 06:36:05 AM



Title: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 08, 2011, 06:36:05 AM
One of our member had an unfortunate encounter with a clueless driver and ended up with a sad MSM.  As I have mentioned in a few threads, I'm retiring the MSM from track duty and building an NA to handle my most angry driving.  I had originally planned on this being a 1.6 turbo but Ken's misfortune provides opportunity for the soul of his MSM to live on in even greater glory!  I also happen to know a guy who has already successfully put a MSM into an NA!  This project will be significantly easier since I won't be bothering with interior or any of the other pleasantries such as emissions or air conditioning.

I present, '90MSM!
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/photo_3.sized.jpg)

The build should be mostly complete by spring.  Stage 1 is dismantling the wreck into useful parts for the build and for resale.  Please don't send me any requests for parts at this time.  There will certainly be several bits parted out but they will be a bit later in the fall once I've wrapped my head around the scope of things - you will see normal FS threads following forum rules, etc.  If you start pestering me for parts, you'll get the passenger headlight mailed to you!

Stage 2 will be returning the Black MSM to civilized condition - stock seats, no door bars, stock ECU, stock turbo, stock DP/exhaust unless I find a deal in the meantime.  The only significant performance upgrades on the MSM that will stay will be the stainless Boss Frog bar, frame rails and the 3.63 gears.

Stage 3 will be stripping down the NA - I'll be using the '90 I got last winter for the teenager.  She's grown fond of the 'dead' Smurf that is actually running like a top on the same 'bad clutch' and 'bad engine' it came with.

Stage 4 will be assembling the NA with the MSM drivetrain and supporting go-fast-without-blowing-up bits.  I'll be putting some rods in the engine prior to stage 4 so it can get frisky with the boost.  ~300whp should be possible with the upgraded IHI and the right supporting hardware - almost all of which I already have on the Black MSM.  No matter what, this will be a very interesting winter.  Stay tuned!  :mrgreen:

Side note/edit:  This was the beginning of my thought process on the matter.  See post #52 for several related links to various stages in these projects.   http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24287.0.html (http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24287.0.html)
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Traveler on October 08, 2011, 07:30:23 AM
Wow, big things happening at your place.  And yes, there's a little cosmetic piece I'm dying to ask for, but I don't want that passenger headlight showing up on my front porch!  I'll be watching the for sale section.  Hope that your disassembly, mod-reversal, strip-job, and build all go well!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on October 08, 2011, 09:04:48 AM
sounds like a massive project, remember to keep an updated build thread for those of us who wanna watch, good luck!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 08, 2011, 09:05:02 AM
Well, I don't think I'm going to be able to save the intercooler!  I did get to the front of the engine before I ran out of sawzall blades. The water neck is broken and the sway scraped up the crank pulley but everything else important is fine so far.  I hope to have this stage torn down in a few weeks with the MSM neutering done by thanksgiving. It's a shame out black twins won't ever chase each other around a track Traveler, but if I got any more aggressive next season my MSM would have looked a lot like this one eventually :(
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: MiataMan on October 08, 2011, 02:10:01 PM
WOW that's what I'm dreaming of.......To buy a MSM that has been in a accident and put the engine,trans rear end and the brakes on a 90-91 Miata :o

This will be a fun project to follow :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: VolCrew on October 08, 2011, 02:10:54 PM
Looking forward to seeing this project progress.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 08, 2011, 03:57:22 PM
Here are some pics of the carnage after a bunch of mangledness was removed.  I will be starting a proper pictorial build thread in the other section.  Of of the reasons we don't like tons of pictures outside of the 'Pictures/Video' section is for the benefit of folks on slow internet connections like a phone who don't want to accidentally click on a thread that locks up their device trying to load pictures.
-h
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/IMG_0542.sized.jpg)
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/IMG_0545.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 08, 2011, 04:29:45 PM
I just looked up the vin on the database.  Chassis #606 born 2/16/04 which is just 10 days before ex mrs_hyde2.0's VR.  It occurred to me, I'm on the title for that car too.  Am I the first crazy in the world to own 3 MSMs at the same time?  ;D

Edit:  I should go borrow her car and then text her a picture of #606 a few hours later!  :lol: :lol: :lol:  What's the use of having ex wives if you can't have a little fun with them?  :P
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on October 08, 2011, 05:28:27 PM
In for this thread! Good luck! Best of both worlds! MSM drivetrain and NA parts availability!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on October 09, 2011, 04:31:38 AM
WOW that's what I'm dreaming of.......To buy a MSM that has been in a accident and put the engine,trans rear end and the brakes on a 90-91 Miata :o

This will be a fun project to follow :mrgreen:
Just in case you can't stand the suspense:
http://www.miata.net/motm/2008/brandt.html
Or turn to several pages in Keith Tanner's latest book.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on October 09, 2011, 06:03:01 AM
Good luck!  Looking forward the progress..


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 09, 2011, 07:35:31 AM
This project will be much less involved than '95MSMs. Mechanically, they will be very similar but mine will have a very basic electrical system, no AC or PS and a stripped interior. If something horrible were to happen to my original MSM, I would be looking for a clean NA chassis to do the 'real' transplant in. I'm digging deep into stage 1 already!
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: broken on October 09, 2011, 11:26:07 AM
Awesome project Hyde. :mrgreen:    I'll pull up a chair.

I've dreamed of using the engine and running gear from an MSM for a Lotus 7 ''clone''.  Or Locost 7.  :laugh:



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on October 09, 2011, 02:54:14 PM
I tried to push him in the direction of a LoCost with Wred (wrecked red), the lightly front-end damaged 1.6, but it wasn't in the cards.  It would have been way more expensive than what he is going to do with WredII.

Some ideas just take longer to take root and flourish?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 09, 2011, 03:22:08 PM
If I had $15 to $20k in play money to goof around with, I would put an LS3 in an NB chassis.  The net cost of what I have planned will be extremely low by the time I sell off all the extra parts from the 3 cars (as long as I don't account for my time  :shockeyes: ).  It will be nice to have a slightly junky yet functional '91 for the teenager, a beautiful near stock MSM for me to drive on nice days and a raw, uncivilized NA track beast making Porsche drivers mutter bad words as they stick their left arm out the window again and again.  :laugh:
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on October 09, 2011, 10:25:20 PM
If you keep the ghetto look as much as you can stand, it will get under the skin of the Porsche drivers even more. ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 10, 2011, 05:07:31 PM
Making some progress!  :mrgreen:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/photo_7.sized.jpg)
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/photo_8.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on October 10, 2011, 06:05:13 PM
When do you plan on making a thread to sell off stuff you won't be using?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: jag on October 10, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
hyde- This is AWESOME!  I'm looking forward to see the results!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 11, 2011, 12:34:38 AM
When do you plan on making a thread to sell off stuff you won't be using?
I should be starting with that tonight.  Stay tuned!  :mrgreen:
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: timk on October 13, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
BitRusty and I are doing something similar - we both have NB track pigs that can't be registered and we have sourced a couple of SE/MSM manifolds, turbos and exhausts to slap on!

Your project looks awesome!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 21, 2011, 08:07:42 AM
I made some more progress on this tonight.  Engine/transmission, wiring harness, front sub frame and the whole interior is out.  It will be ready for the sawzall this weekend!   :mrgreen:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/photo_7_001.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: MLB on October 26, 2011, 03:34:12 PM
I'm still considering being the first guy (fool? LOL) to trade my MSM motor for a similar or less mileage na motor from a new Miata.   :shockeyes:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: greenhat on October 26, 2011, 04:46:36 PM
new NA? why?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 26, 2011, 05:12:52 PM
I'm still considering being the first guy (fool? LOL) to trade my MSM motor for a similar or less mileage na motor from a new Miata.   :shockeyes:
I'm confused.  You don't like the turbo?  If that's the case, I'd recommend selling the low-mile MSM and using the proceeds to buy a low mile SE from '00 through '02.  If you take the MSM engine (turbo) out of an MSM, it will lose a bunch of value before you begin to consider how slow it would be...  :sad1:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: apagios on October 26, 2011, 07:59:02 PM
I'm still considering being the first guy (fool? LOL) to trade my MSM motor for a similar or less mileage na motor from a new Miata.   :shockeyes:
I'm confused.  You don't like the turbo?  If that's the case, I'd recommend selling the low-mile MSM and using the proceeds to buy a low mile SE from '00 through '02.  If you take the MSM engine (turbo) out of an MSM, it will lose a bunch of value before you begin to consider how slow it would be...  :sad1:

So I suspect you are talking "na" as in a "naturally aspirated" MZR engine from the "new miata" (NC)?  I think "NA miata" and "naturally aspirated" are possibly confused here?

I can see the draw from a stock to stock comparison, the MZR makes similar power and flatter torque band (no spool up), but the benefits of a simple intake and exhaust set up on the MSM will get you to way above the MZR output.  If you wanted to go more extreme and bolt on a SC and a new flash for the MZR, then I agree with Hyde, sell the MSM and buy a used NC Miata.

But an MZR engine in a NB chassis seems like it not really be the best way to go.  Maybe if you had a base NB miata and really hated the NC styling that much.  But to yank all the turbo stuff out of the MSM and then swap in an MZR will very likely cost you much more then simply selling a stock MSM and buying a used NC miata.




Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on October 29, 2011, 03:52:55 AM
If you trade an MSM engine for an MZR, both of you will likely be very disappointed unless you have non-Miata homes for both engines.  The MZR is a completely different engine.  It will not mate to any NA or NB transmission and has the intake and exhaust sides reversed. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: apagios on October 29, 2011, 05:53:27 PM
If you trade an MSM engine for an MZR, both of you will likely be very disappointed unless you have non-Miata homes for both engines.  The MZR is a completely different engine.  It will not mate to any NA or NB transmission and has the intake and exhaust sides reversed. 

That's pretty much what I was thinking.  I was pretty sure the MZR won't simply drop in, but I didn't know the specifics of why, thanks for the info!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: CharlesE on November 08, 2011, 10:52:11 AM
Mr. H:  Have you considered seam welding the NA.  It would add considerable stiffness.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on November 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Mr. H:  Have you considered seam welding the NA.  It would add considerable stiffness.


Good point, now would be the time to do it if your really building it as a track car.  Your going to do a cage so your going to probably gut it anyway, get it welded.  Put Mark to work.    :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on November 08, 2011, 12:31:53 PM
We've been talking about it (seam welding). 

I got sick and missed an opportunity - we were going to practice on the MSM corpse to see if we could develop techniques for seam welding w/o destroying the paint (icing the surrounding area, etc).  I discolored the paint on the door sills to about 1.5" away from the raised seams when I did the lower sills on '95MSM.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: apagios on November 08, 2011, 09:36:37 PM
well for an old NA that's being made into a track car, Hyde do you care much about paint?  Or seam weld and cage it, then a cheap painting before the build?



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 09, 2011, 12:17:57 AM
I'm going to weld it and add the cage while everything is stripped. I think I got the settings pretty close practicing on the wreck ;)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 09, 2011, 01:19:41 AM
Stage 1 is dismantling the wreck into useful parts for the build and for resale.  Please don't send me any requests for parts at this time.  There will certainly be several bits parted out but they will be a bit later in the fall once I've wrapped my head around the scope of things - you will see normal FS threads following forum rules, etc.  If you start pestering me for parts, you'll get the passenger headlight mailed to you!

Stage 2 will be returning the Black MSM to civilized condition - stock seats, no door bars, stock ECU, stock turbo, stock DP/exhaust unless I find a deal in the meantime.  The only significant performance upgrades on the MSM that will stay will be the stainless Boss Frog bar, frame rails and the 3.63 gears.

Stage 3 will be stripping down the NA - I'll be using the '90 I got last winter for the teenager.  She's grown fond of the 'dead' Smurf that is actually running like a top on the same 'bad clutch' and 'bad engine' it came with.

Stage 4 will be assembling the NA with the MSM drivetrain and supporting go-fast-without-blowing-up bits.  I'll be putting some rods in the engine prior to stage 4 so it can get frisky with the boost.  ~300whp should be possible with the upgraded IHI and the right supporting hardware - almost all of which I already have on the Black MSM.  No matter what, this will be a very interesting winter.  Stay tuned!  :mrgreen:
-h
Stage 2 is almost complete.  Good gawd it has taken longer than I thought un-do almost 3 years of work...  :shockeyes:  The final configuration will be the BEGI intake w/ebay intercooler and the FM downpipe into stock midpipe/exhaust.  The Boss Frog rollbar and 3.63 gears will stay as will the Grom ipod input and 9500ci.  There are a few other bits I'm forgetting but everything else is bone stock.   :mrgreen:  With any luck, I'll have it running tonight and at the alignment shop in the morning! 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on November 09, 2011, 02:55:48 AM
Hyde, now that the black msm is stock I better not see it in the for sale section... :angry9: Don't wanna see some excuse you never drive it yadda yadda... lol! :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 09, 2011, 03:47:16 AM
No worries about that!  The reason it is being tamed is so I can keep it and drive it.  When you get to the point my car was, it was a real handful to drive on the street.  Taking it to work in rush hour was like a Thoroughbred giving pony rides.

Update:  What have I done!!!!????   :shockeyes: :shockeyes: :shockeyes: :shockeyes: :shockeyes:

The MSM started right up, idled, didn't throw any codes and....


it's sooooooo quiet!   :'( :'( :'( :'(
-h


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on November 09, 2011, 07:55:49 PM
Brian and I were talking last night, before he got the MSM going.  I've been driving around with my EBC disabled lately.  The result is a soft (the wastegate cracks and opens progressively) 8 psi.  The personality of the car is quite different - it is so.... domesticated, compared to how raw it is with the EBC turned on and boost running to 14 psi.  With the roads being damp most of the time, it is a whole lot easier to drive with the more gradual and limited torque curve.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on November 09, 2011, 11:13:41 PM
This thread requires more photos... :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 10, 2011, 07:04:12 AM
All I've got to show off is a 98% assembled stock MSM, pieces of a dead MSM all over the house, garage and back yard shop with thousands of dollars worth of go fast bits scattered among them.  My brother has been the keeper of the '90 since July but he's going to need to give it up when stage 3 kicks in a few days from now...  I guess I'll let him play with the smurf until the teenager gets her grades up.  I told her if she misses the mark this semester and spring semester, I'm selling the smurf and buying myself something nice.  :angel1:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 13, 2011, 05:30:50 AM
Look who came home tonight!
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/90MSM-Project/photo_15.sized.jpg)
My goofy brother left the car number on the windshield from the track day in July I was at before I dropped it off.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: yahtah on November 13, 2011, 06:15:39 AM
I guess I'll let him play with the smurf until the teenager gets her grades up.  I told her if she misses the mark this semester and spring semester, I'm selling the smurf and buying myself something nice.  :angel1:

You could get yourself some 15 x 9 6UL's and a set of HooHoo's from the smurf sale. That would be something nice!  :lol:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 13, 2011, 06:20:46 AM
My brother will probably buy the smurf if it comes to that which will mean 12 interest free payments small enough dissolve into the vortex of the checking account.  It will never feel like a chunk of change...  :'(
...unless I can get him financing through the bank of mom!  If I take his car, the folks will be stuck loaning him their cars all the time.  Hmm...  ::)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: yahtah on November 13, 2011, 06:33:10 AM
My brother will probably buy the smurf if it comes to that which will mean 12 interest free payments small enough dissolve into the vortex of the checking account.  It will never feel like a chunk of change...  :'(
...unless I can get him financing through the bank of mom!  If I take his car, the folks will be stuck loaning him their cars all the time.  Hmm...  ::)

Ah, yes, the family circle of cars! I know it well... too well. The bro's commitment is "a dollar down, and a dollar every time you can catch me." Maybe I should buy your smurf (for pennies on the dollar) and save you the headache of the family feud!   ::)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on December 03, 2011, 06:28:27 AM
It was a pretty big 24 hours for MSM606.  The engine came out last night and a 100# box of steel tubing was on my step when I got home from work tonight.  It appears to be a miatacage!  :mrgreen:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/Partout/photo_26.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 06, 2012, 07:27:13 AM
It's been a while but work has been progressing.  I made 8 or 10 round trips to Bob Bundy's house which is about an hour away.  Bob has the skills to put in the cage and a TIG welder to make it beautiful.  I gave him a rolling chassis from one of the earlier projects so he owed me a favor.  Now I owe him big-time because he put at least 50 hours into this - probably more.   :shockeyes:  It probably could have been slammed in with half that time with a MIG but it wouldn't have been as beautiful or strong.  Since we're well into stage 3, it's time for more pictures.  Less than 90 days to MRLS and I need to be ready!
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057568.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057570.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057571.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057572.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057573.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057574.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057575.sized.jpg)



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 06, 2012, 07:40:05 AM
I was very excited to find that the brake lines from the '04 fit perfectly into the '90 so the ABS will be ready with no fabrication of the hydraulics.  After discussing 949's experience at the 25 hours of Thunderhill with Sonny where we saw Crusher send a caliper piston into the rotor with ABS, I have decided to put the whole ABS system on a simple toggle switch.  Normally, I'll run with it off but in the rain or an unusual situation, it is just a flick of a switch away. 

I have already put on both sub-frames from the NB as well as the Energy Suspension Bushing loaded control arms, the sport brakes and Xidas.  Oooohhh...  This is going to be fun!  When people ask me what I'm trying to build I say a Spec Miata with wider tires, better suspension, bigger brakes, aero and 300whp.  :angel1:

I'm going to assemble the short block next week - forged pistons so I can let the boost wander into the high teens without worrying about aerating the block.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057576.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057577.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1057578.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on January 06, 2012, 08:06:56 AM
Impressive cage, looks on par with those made by blackbird fab worx.  What color you gonna paint it?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on January 06, 2012, 02:58:04 PM
Why do the brakes wear faster with ABS?  I had read the 949 threads about Thunderhill and never fully understood.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on January 06, 2012, 04:24:42 PM
Looking good..!  Can't wait to see it in person at MRLS..


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 06, 2012, 05:15:53 PM
Like the Stones said, I will paint it black.  The ABS wears brakes faster because drivers tend to just push harder on the middle pedal when the brakes get hot. 606 will be 400# lighter than my MSM and will have greatly improved ducting also so it will be better. I will also be putting on a BBK later but is beyond the scope of the budget for now. I have folded XP10s in half on the black car at one stupid local track and the OEM caliper paint is burned off my fronts in places :shockeyes:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 06, 2012, 05:19:08 PM
Looking good..!  Can't wait to see it in person at MRLS..
I'm going to try to make it!  Bring your car though - I don't think I'll have a passenger seat in yet.  That is way down on the priority list as you probably see from the pictures! :lol:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 09, 2012, 07:37:20 AM
Por15 smells really good.   :crazy2:  I can't decide if I should a) go find a rave, b) build my shortblock or c) go to bed...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1097579.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1097580.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1097581.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 09, 2012, 07:49:38 AM
Edit - This post directs back to mazda-speed.com threads.  I will embed them below.

Since this has turned into my official build thread, here is the story of where the little NA and I crossed paths...
http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22710.0.html (http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22710.0.html)
and one from m.net:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=409205&highlight=hyde+motorsports (http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=409205&highlight=hyde+motorsports)

...and this is where the teenager's Smurf came from - when she finally gets those grades up...
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=431654&highlight=hyde+motorsports (http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=431654&highlight=hyde+motorsports)

Incidentally, the '92 in the last thread was given to Bob after I realized it had more crash damage than I could repair easily so he got something for his time building the cage.  Another million favors and I'll be paid off...  :shockeyes:

Here's the final disposition of MSM606  :'(
http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24769.0.html (http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24769.0.html)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 10, 2012, 08:21:46 AM
I spent a few hours tonight getting the ABS brick mounted as well as the rest of the brake hydraulics.  The NB ABS brick mounts on a bracket that bolts to the car so that the brick itself can float on a cushion of rubber bushings.  There is one nutplate in the NA that works for this.  The other two mounting points I drilled and tapped M6 1.0 holes.  Here is the final result:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1097583.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1097585.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1097584.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1107587.sized.jpg)

You will also notice that I had to use the wiper motor from the MSM wreck.  The non ABS NA motors intrude into the area occupied by the brick.  Next, I mounted the brake booster, master and clutch master.  In previous pictures they were just set in place.  I took a minute to spray the engine bay where a previous fluid leak had eaten the paint.  Later in the process I'll try to get a rattle can to match the red.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1107586.sized.jpg)

...and the secret weapon.  The thing we all know adds 5whp and drops 3 seconds a lap on every MSM...  The pedal assembly.   ::)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1107588.sized.jpg)

I bled the brakes down and have a strong pedal.  I'll need to do it again with the booster working and I also need to take it to the dealer to have them 'burp' the ABS system.  Apparently, only the dealer can do it effectively.  I have read about techniques that involve jackstands and lightly applying the brakes with the engine running and some wheels spinning and others stationary so maybe I'll try that first.  Time for bed - I still work for a living too...  :laugh:



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on January 10, 2012, 08:56:51 AM
Actually, In "Ayrton Senna's principles of race driving", he stated the pedals were crucial to a good driving position, which was the first chapter, and the most important aspect of driving.  He said not every f1 car has a dead pedal, and it's no doubt a fault to not have one.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 12, 2012, 07:04:12 AM
Not much to add today.  I spent some time peeling the ABS wires out of the MSM harness and was continually shocked that OEM tape wrapping jobs are no better than what you or I do when we are working on something.   :shockeyes:  The ABS sensors I bought do not fit the hub ring so that was disappointing and I'm off to research the part numbers.  I'm getting ready to put the dash back in so I modified the steering wheel lock.  I plan to eventually have all of this wiring pulled out and have nothing but a few toggle switches and a button.  For now, however, I'm going to use as much of the OEM harness as I can to minimize variables when I get to the troubleshooting stage.  Since I will eventually be running around without a key, I wanted to disable the lock before I put it back in.

Instructions are vague and surprisingly rare but essentially you drill out the little cover opposite of the column itself and a spring falls out.  The step I took that I didn't read about is to put a dab of JB Weld on the lock mechanism the spring was formerly pushing into the lock position.  I don't want it rattling around and deciding to lock into position at speed since the key won't be there to hold it out.  Note:  This is an early NA column.  I don't know if the NB mechanism is different but the NA steering shaft and knuckle bolted right up to the NB rack pinion that was in the black car previously.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1117589.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 13, 2012, 07:42:55 AM
Nothing too exciting today.  I picked up the block from the machine shop and assembled the bottom end.  Everything came out perfectly - plastigauge was consistent 2 thousandths across the rotating parts and the thrust was smack in the middle of the specs.  My cheap Ebay rods were 466g each - identical.  Should be a strong motor.  Since there isn't a future ex-mrs_hyde in the house currently, I'm allowed to work on the engine in the dining room.  I took a vote of everyone who contributes to the mortgage, pays utilities and buys groceries.  It was unanimous...   :laugh:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1127591.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on January 13, 2012, 08:09:55 AM
you're building the block yourself?  I've heard there were many specialized tools needed to do this.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: ec62 on January 13, 2012, 12:54:52 PM
I am glad that you posted what you got with the plasticgauge. I am in the middle of rebuilding my engine and I got the same reading that you have but every thing that I have read on line say that the spec are .0008-.0014 for the mains and .0008 -.0017 for the rods. I was worried that I had too much clearance.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 13, 2012, 05:36:57 PM
you're building the block yourself?  I've heard there were many specialized tools needed to do this.
I put it together with a friend who has build hundreds of motors. You need the right lubes and a good torque wrench. Gapping the rings was careful work and the tool to compress the rings for installation is specialized but not too expensive.  Otherwise, just keep things clean and torque to spec and it's not bad at all.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 17, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
I had to work most of the long weekend but I did get a little bit done.  The dash still fits with the cage, but I didn't want a full dash for weight and ease of working on things.  Another cool thing is the OEM defrosters still work.  The ends that blow on the side glass don't clear the cage so I had to block them with some foil tape, a few zip ties and then I sleeved a bit of the outer plastic over it since it contained a screw boss.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1157592.sized.jpg)
I cut the dash right below the two side mounting points:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1157593.sized.jpg)
Here's the gutted door.  It's shocking how much weight came out of it.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177594.sized.jpg)
The glass drops in and rests on the miatacage hooks bolted inside the door.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177595.sized.jpg)
View from underneath of the hooks.  Ingenious design really.  They drop in and can only be removed (easily) with the door open so you could technically lock the car still.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177596.sized.jpg)
My last mystery of the day is what to do with the OEM knock sensor.  It is in the way of my NA6 oil pressure sender.  It will be awesome to have a real OPG for a change.  I also put the big 255lph fuel pump in the the 90's housing.  It will really help me get my mileage down under 10mpg...  :roll:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/photo_40.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 18, 2012, 07:34:55 AM
I got a bit more done today.  I finished the evening fitting the FM Crossflow NB radiator into the NA.  I wasn't excited about buying a new radiator and the black car didn't need megacooling anymore.  A bit of 1.25" aluminum angle iron and some NB radiator mounts flipped backwards did the trick.  Only took a few whacks with a BFH (Blunt Force Helper) - on the car, not the radiator.  :shockeyes:  I still need to take it out because I'm afraid it has a pinhole leak that I thought was a leaky plug.  :angry9:

Edit:  After reading the FM instructions that I had filed, this radiator fits all 15 model years.  For the NA, you need to take the brackets off the stock radiator which are very similar to what I fabricated (stupidly).  I'm not inserting any new pics, but it drops right in.  Also, the leak mentioned here is not an issue.  We're all good!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177598.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177600.sized.jpg)

A few other light duty things:  I put in the trunk release cable from the wreck.  The early NAs don't have it.  Eventually, I will have buttons and toggle switches instead of a key so carrying around a key for the sole purpose of getting in the truck is a bit annoying.  Anyone trying this at home should know you need the latch mechanism from a trunk release car also since without it, there is nowhere to attach the cable.  :mrgreen:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177601.sized.jpg)

Also today, I put in the wiper stalks, clockspring and wheel hub.  The steering column went in yesterday so now all the car needs to compete in the soapbox derby is a seat.   :P
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1177602.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: toy 4 every season on January 18, 2012, 10:52:07 AM
Would a spacer of some type push the oil pressure sensor away from the block enough to clear the knock sensor? I know I have an adaptor on mine and it clears for real oil pressure using a VDO sender.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on January 18, 2012, 11:52:47 AM
Why not use a remote oil filter and install the OP sender there?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 18, 2012, 04:02:27 PM
It may be just a legend, but I read the NA6 oil pressure gauge will bounce on detonation but only if it attached to the block directly. Truth or fiction?  I don't want to put a remote filter in this car to minimize failure points. There will be a remote cooler though ;)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on January 19, 2012, 12:34:32 AM
Truth but not something I would want to rely on as a knock detector.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 19, 2012, 03:39:07 AM
The adaptronic has knock control function but I'll need to figure out how it interfaces without the stock ECU...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 20, 2012, 08:24:02 AM
Oil pump arrived today.  Boundary Engineering's Billet oil pump gears are the standard for high HP BP motors but I couldn't afford one.  The oil pump that came in the wreck was cracked (the ear that the alternator bolts to) so I needed a new pump.  The timing was good because I found a very rare pump instead.  Miataroadster had about 50 sets of pump gears machined about 4 or 5 years ago but discontinued them because they cost too much to produce to allow a good price point.  A member had one that he never installed and was lightly used on a motor that blew up for unrelated reasons.

Everything looks great and the tolerances far exceed FSM minimums.  I asked Bill about the pumps and he had never heard of one failing - really hadn't heard anything about them since he sold them which must be a good sign.   thumup  Here's the pretty piece of work:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1197605.sized.jpg)
And we're starting to look like an engine again...  :angel1:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1207607.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on January 20, 2012, 11:14:27 AM
The flowers coming out of the number four cylinder are a nice touch.  How much extra power do you expect from that upgrade?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: ec62 on January 20, 2012, 01:01:27 PM
I noticed that you have a bolt in the oil return for the catch can. Are you going to reuse the stock catch can and this port or are you going to block it off and go with a different catch can. I am curious because I think that this port is the reason that I am having to rebuild my engine now. It allow the oil to be pushed up from the sump and into the inlet of the turbo. I was thinking about making an blanking plate and doing away with the whole pipe inside and out.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on January 20, 2012, 01:50:09 PM
Read the posts by millsj about his solution to the oil in the intake issues.  2nd catch can and a valve in the line so he could shut it off when he wants to.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 20, 2012, 04:26:31 PM
I will just use a standard VTA catch can. I used parts from the wreck to return the black MSM to stock. The bolt was left over and got traded over from the black car.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 20, 2012, 04:27:37 PM
The flowers coming out of the number four cylinder are a nice touch.  How much extra power do you expect from that upgrade?
+3whp for the flowers.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 27, 2012, 09:49:50 AM
Got the ABS system mostly in.  I borrowed the 30A airbag fuse from the box under the hood to power the ABS and the smaller 20A airbag from the same spot to run the other power lead.  The sensors are run to all 4 corners and wires soldered together.  The rear wires go through a large plug so I figure solder will give plenty of signal.  I also made a little bracket to mount the fuse box to since the original bracket had to go to make room for the ABS block.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1267613.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1267614.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1267617.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1267618.sized.jpg)

I got some steel angle iron and made some ramps for the trailer.  8 footers to allow the LOW car up onto the trailer.  :mrgreen:  No, I'm not sure how one of the bars got off by 1" but I don't really car at this point.  Out of shielding gas so I'll need to finish up later...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1267619.sized.jpg)

The head went on the motor too.  I'm using a coolant reroute so I needed to block off the front.  Some 1/4" aluminum plate ground to side works perfectly for a blanking plate.  Too bad nobody will ever see it...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1267616.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1277620.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1277621.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: CharlesE on January 27, 2012, 10:47:01 AM
The timing belt install photo is a great shot of the belt routing.  Gates Racing Belt?

Everything looks so spotless.  Impressive.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 28, 2012, 06:43:59 PM
I still need to set the cams. The intake cam sprocket doesn't have both the 'I' and 'E' marking like the Haynes book shows and the head was off for so long I don't remember exactly what the orientation was. I've never done a timing belt so '95MSM is going to swing by tomorrow and give it a once over.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on January 28, 2012, 06:56:35 PM
I never use the Haynes book.  I found too many wrong things in it.  The Graingers Enthusiasts Manual, Keith's books and the FSM are my reference guides.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 31, 2012, 10:39:56 AM
Full day today.  I started by swapping hubs between the cars so the ABS sensors would fit.  I'll post in the other thread about that too.  While I had the hub off, I took a minute to put on the Trackspeed backing plates.  This should help cooling a ton.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1307623.sized.jpg)
The ABS ring/sensor is now happy.  The '04 hubs are on the track car with the rest of the '04 stuff and the '05 has hubs to match the vin.  Why do I expect this will still confuse me when it is time to do new hubs?  :roll:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1307625.sized.jpg)
I finished up the ramps for the trailer.  Simple but functional and I'm glad to have them out of the garage - I need the space!
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1307626.sized.jpg)
The next excitement on the agenda is mounting the seat.  I had a pair of grungy Corbeaus sitting in the back room that will work perfectly.  Unfortunately, I needed to make the mount from scratch.  I copied the design of the Corbeau mounts (I have two passengers but no driver sides  :angry9: ). 
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1317627.sized.jpg)
One thing I didn't like about the Corbeaus when I had them in the MSM was that they sat too upright which forced me to put 1" spacers under the front.  I never liked this and it put pressure on the back of my legs when working the pedals.  Instead of raising the front this time, I decided to drop the back.  I cut the mounting bar out of the back of the seat and welded it to the other side of the seat frame.  This allows the frame of the seat to sit on the floor (and my rear end by extension).  I did a test fit before painting the frame and the seating position feels almost perfect.  My shoulders are square to the wheel and the brake pedal is right in the center of my body.  My knee clears the wheel by over an inch as I work the pedals and my arms have a nice bend to them at 9 and 3. 
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1317628.sized.jpg)
Mounting the seats in the MSM sucked beyond anything I had done to the car.  This was much better - probably less than 6 hours of fab start to finish.  I did beat on the tunnel a bit with the BFH (blunt force helper  :angel1:  ::) ) to get the Corbeau in but it wasn't too bad.  I don't know if I'll have time to do the passenger side before MRLS but I will do it for sure eventually.  Making passengers scream is some of the most fun you can have on the track and I'll gladly pay the weight penalty to have a right seat for those smiles.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on January 31, 2012, 05:06:37 PM
Want passenger seat.  Want passenger seat.. :D


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 31, 2012, 07:03:24 PM
Want passenger seat.  Want passenger seat.. :D
But you didn't scream - even when we slid through T14 and went 2 off in T1!   ;D ;D

I'm sure you can appreciate the triage going on:
1.  Get car running.
2.  Get car running well enough to not blow up and return to the paddock under its own power each time.
3.  Install passenger seat.
  :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on February 01, 2012, 03:17:56 AM
Absolutely.  You definitely have the right priorities..  :)



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 01, 2012, 09:48:56 AM
Got the seat mounted and the harness set.  Here's the seat bracket mounted with zero clearance to the rail.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P1317629.sized.jpg)

And the seat mounted...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2017630.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2017631.sized.jpg)

Did some brainstorming on the center stack and how to mount everything.  Stay tuned...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 04, 2012, 08:40:41 AM
I spend a few minutes last night test fitting the exhaust that came off the black car.  For anyone neurotic about details, I will be using a BEGI SGDP into a 3" Corksport exhaust.  I had a shop cut out the 'MSM' dip at the union of the DP/Exhaust and relocated flex to be behind where it bolts to the transmission.  The result is great although the DP and exhaust are now forever tied together as a pair.

Fortunately, I'm using the MSM subframes so the two exhaust hangers are perfect there.  The Corksport exhaust doesn't have any hangers in front of the rear subframe so the two on the NA chassis will be unused.  The last pair is at the muffler.  I'm going to need to weld a pair of new hangers off the opposite side of the frame rail but by my estimations, it will fit the bumper cutout perfectly.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2037632.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2037633.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2037634.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2037635.sized.jpg)

No, there isn't much room for a 3" exhaust but I was able to flog the black car with this setup for two seasons without ever hearing a rattle.  The urethane exhaust hangers are critical to that result.  Install tip to R&R exhaust hangers:  Lube them up with 409.  It's basically soapy water and dries without residue.  Just keep it from dripping in your eyes...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: The_Guff on February 04, 2012, 02:19:41 PM
You probably have seen this on miataturbo already, BE is releasing the street version of their oil pump this month. Regular pricing is $280 but guaranteed price is $270 for early adopters, every 5 people takes $10 off the group buy price.

It's still a new fully blue printed pump with the billet gears installed. It's coming out just in time for reassembly of my car!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 08, 2012, 09:06:05 AM
I got a very interesting oil pump from a member here - a very limited production run from miataroadster from several years ago that was installed on a motor for a few hundred miles until poorly gapped rings ruined the block.  Bill confirmed it was one of his with some photos but said they were too expensive to produce at a good price point.  He also said he has never heard of any of the ~20 production run failing.   :mrgreen:

I didn't get a ton done so far this week.  Monday it was 60* here (after a foot of snow 3 weeks earlier) so I did some maintenance on the tow vehicle.  I would like to publicly thank Ford for making a truck with a well designed heater core.  Remove the glovebox (no tools required), remove cover held on by seven 8mm bolts that are all accessible with the same socket/extension directly through the glovebox opening and the heater core is right there.  I have done heater cores on cars where the seats need to come out to get the console out to get the steering column out to get the dash out so you can remove the HVAC ducting and access the heater core 7 book hours later.   >:(

I did the belt, all hoses, t-stat and radiator cap while I was at it so we should be good-to-go although I am going to inspect and bleed the front brakes before towing to MRLS...

The race car is going to have a BEGI coolant reroute that I got in a box of parts with a VICS manifold and several other bits for $100.   :mrgreen:  One of my many half-baked ideas to simplify things is to utilize the 1.6 fan switch that usually mounts on the front water neck.  It basically holds the fan relay open until it reaches temp and then turns the fan on.  If it fails or comes unplugged, the fans default to running.  Simple and ingenious except that I needed to find a place to mount it in the hot side of the water jacket.  Luckily, the BEGI spacer has two extra ports - two of which fit perfectly.  The only problem is they are tapped for a NPT plug with a rounded deck around the tap.  No problem.  I found a brass washer that fit the sensor's o-ring and stirred up a little JB Weld.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2067637.sized.jpg)
I'm excited to have one less thing for my as of yet unidentified ECU to worry about controlling.   :help:

The rest of tonight was spent sorting nuts and bolts and cleaning up the house a little.  I put two dashboards and two seats in the attic and boxed up several boxes of 1.6 parts that I may need in the future but aren't needed right now.  These include AC and PS systems, two complete 1.6 intakes, two complete 1.6 brakes sets (calipers, rotors, pads and master cylinders), and dozens of interior bits.  A pedal set, wheel... blah blah blah...  You get the idea.

My real motivation was to locate three things I couldn't find anywhere:  MSM throttle cable (needed to use the 1.8 intake and throttle body), turbo oil and water lines with banjo bolts and the 1.8 starter motor.  I hit the jackpot in a box that has been buried for weeks.  Everything was together almost like I knew I was going to need it...  :roll:  Thursday, I'm going harvest the 1.8 plugs off the MSM harness and do a some brainstorming of basic routing.  After that I'll be hardcore into the final assembly of the hot side, hang the motor on the crane and install the clutch/flywheel and transmission.  I won't get far enough to actually get it in the car Thursday but it should be pretty close to ready.  The clock is ticking...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on February 08, 2012, 01:45:00 PM
Muffler? It's race car! Why you need muffler!?  ^-^


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 08, 2012, 01:50:48 PM
Muffler? It's race car! Why you need muffler!?  ^-^

Funny thing called sound limits.

We had a situation this last track day that was a lesson in how DB works.  The weather was cool and damp.  We had guys with stock GT3's and Camaros that have driven on this track many times being thrown off the track for breaking the DB sound levels.  We don't have low limits at this track.  I'm a little concerned about what will happen when I take the Z06 to the track.  Lifting on the front straight before the DB meter stinks and if your caught doing it they treat it like you failed.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 08, 2012, 06:19:31 PM
Turbo cars rarely fail sound but we're not barbaric. Besides, late night tuning sessions go better with a reasonable sound level.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on February 08, 2012, 11:25:31 PM
Muffler? It's race car! Why you need muffler!?  ^-^

Funny thing called sound limits.

We had a situation this last track day that was a lesson in how DB works.  The weather was cool and damp.  We had guys with stock GT3's and Camaros that have driven on this track many times being thrown off the track for breaking the DB sound levels.  We don't have low limits at this track.  I'm a little concerned about what will happen when I take the Z06 to the track.  Lifting on the front straight before the DB meter stinks and if your caught doing it they treat it like you failed.

I wonder if that has to do with the track's location?

There's a few tracks in chicagoland that the porsche's and spec miatas attack all day with strait loud exhaust. But they are both located either way out in the sticks... Or owned private property out next to a NHRA drag strip. I mean we autox in the drag strips parkinglot, and there's a grassy hill that's supposed to act as a sound barrier between the drag strip and the road coarse. But I swear you get the Porsche club on a track day and even half a mile away with the hill it sounds like the cars are running right next too you.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 09, 2012, 12:04:39 AM
Well the track was in the middle of nowhere when it was built but now 60 years later there are housing developements around it even though it's still in the middle of nowhere.   :shockeyes:

The point is we have sound levels but they aren't low and GT3s and Camaros run there all the time but on this day the weather was such that the DB readings were higher than normal causing cars to fail that normally pass with no issues.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 09, 2012, 01:22:49 AM
Our local track was built in the 1950s on 300+ acres of private property.  In the last 60 years, houses have popped up around it including on who's back yard is up against the run off area of a 90mph braking zone.   :shockeyes:  These people seem aghast that we would like to be able to run our cars around the track 7 days a week and occasionally run a night event too.  They are shocked that race cars are loud.  I would like to hear from anyone who moved into their house BEFORE the track was built.  Everyone else can pound sand. :tickedoff:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 09, 2012, 01:27:59 AM
It is amazing, isn't it.  LaGuardia Airport in NYC is forced to use all sorts of noise abatement procedures because of all the housing built all around the airport, none of which was there when the airport was put up.  The noise abatement causes some very scarey take offs and landings to be done!   :shockeyes:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: rotorglow on February 09, 2012, 02:52:17 AM
There's no racing (or schools, I guess) at all at Lime Rock on Sundays because of the noise.....

Larry's comment about LGA reminds me about something I read by a commercial pilot about how dicey flying into DCA can be, given the serpentine approach caused by all the restricted airspace around it.  He said more flights should divert to Dulles in bad weather, but people get mad (when they really should be thanking the pilots for getting them on the ground safely).


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on February 09, 2012, 05:39:16 AM
I did not know this about LGA... then again i've never used LGA, JFK only... always wondered why you needed 2 airports 15 min away from each other


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 09, 2012, 08:45:58 AM
Back on track tonight.  I realized that not all 1.8 fuel rails are the same.  The NA8 rail will not fit a BP4W head in case anyone cares...  Crap...  :banghead:

I spent some quality time with the engine harness.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097647.sized.jpg)
I also went through the wiring diagram and identified everything in said harness.  I'm leaning towards a full DIY with the Adaptronic.  Anyone who want to proofread - this is just a first draft...
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/WIRINGMSMHARNESS.jpg)
Many of these will tie directly into the Adaptronic harness.  The VTCS plug matches the VICS solenoid on the new manifold so I can use it and the existing wiring into an output in the computer for an RPM switch.  Pretty cool.  MAF sensor gets converted to a MAP and the AC and PS signals can be pulled.  Boost control eliminates 2 wires although I will need to add a pair for the real EBC.  EGR and O2 Sensor eliminate 10 wires. 

The plan would be to start with timing (Cam and crank), fuel, spark, MAP and get it running.  Then add TPS, IAC and the coolant/IAT trims.  Last is boost, VICS, 2nd IAT and Knock control.  Boy, that sounds simple! Shoot me now...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 09, 2012, 11:22:37 AM
I did not know this about LGA... then again i've never used LGA, JFK only... always wondered why you needed 2 airports 15 min away from each other

LGA start life as an airport for Pan Am who was using the Flying Boats at the time.  Hence the terminal at LGA called the Marine Air Terminal.  It was built there because LGA is on Flushing Bay.  The same thing that made it work for that purpose is the same thing that stopped it from developing into the main airport for NY.  The airport is built on the bay.  There was nowhere to expand.  When props gave way to jets they had to extend the runways and this had to be done by building them on stilts into the bay.  There are only 2 runways there and they are limited to the type of plane that can use the airport.  No 747s at LGA.  Funny thing is they could handle DC10 and L1011 though.

This is why Kennedy became the main airport.  Lots of property to build multiple runways of unlimited length.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 10, 2012, 06:45:58 AM
I don't feel like I got much done today but I guess there was progress.  Part of the day was spent chasing some failed ideas with the BEGI spacer.  I mentioned in my previous post about my desire to use the NA6's fan control sensor that goes on that engine's waterneck.  I put everthing together to do that and realized I had a problem.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097652.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097653.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097654.sized.jpg)

I could make it work if the T-Stat was placed against the block but that would keep flow from the heater core until the temp was reached which defeats the whole purpose.  The neck from the NA6 would have been perfect if that pesky firewall wasn't there...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097655.sized.jpg)

Instead, I tapped into the blanking plate I made last week for the front of the engine.  The wire is already up there so it made sense.  I just noticed I didn't take any pics of that but I like it.

The next step in my day was to start assembling the manifold and turbo.  That's a lot of inconel!!  Brand new M8x1.25 studs described earlier and the M10 studs for the downpipe I put on last year.  Resbond everywhere - the goal is to not need to even touch the hotside until next time the engine comes out.  Any bets?

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097656.sized.jpg)

I've taken turbos out of these cars more than I care to count and after looking at this closely from this angle, it might make things easier to remove the oil and water line from the block instead of the turbo - at least the oil feed which comes over the top of the turbo.  Either way, the lower support plate it critical to get out of the way no matter how you are taking things out.

The motor made the big journey from the dining room to the garage.  I put the flywheel and clutch on but had to stop for the night when my 3/8" plug on the bottom on the BEGI spacer interfered with the bell housing.  I'll return to the store in the morning to find a recessed hex plug as well as a plug for the EGR bung off the manifold.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2097660.sized.jpg)



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Nik Naym on February 10, 2012, 07:20:59 AM
Hyde, thanks for this thread.

I really enjoy following along as you build your car. It sort of gives me a chance to "build vicariously"  through you.

Also this thread has taught me why I can't tear down and rebuild an engine: I don't have a dining Room!  :laugh:


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on February 10, 2012, 09:02:26 AM
A true follower would symbollicly skin their knuckles every time they visit this thread as a sign  of support and appreciation :P


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on February 10, 2012, 09:53:37 AM
A true follower would symbollicly skin their knuckles every time they visit this thread as a sign  of support and appreciation :P

Knuckles is my cat's name, you are sick!

JK I don't have a cat, and if I did have a cat named Knuckles I wouldn't be averse to skinning it to support a '90MSM.  Cats have fleas, try to claim my property by peeing on it, and require their poop to be cleaned up regularly.  I'm done owning cats, no more ever.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: CharlesE on February 10, 2012, 11:03:08 AM

Mr. H:  consider posting the Wiring chart to the FAQ's.

scotty b:


(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/Windshield-Nozzle-Replacement/sad_cat_is_sad156.jpg)



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: ec62 on February 10, 2012, 01:58:13 PM
What was the final out come of the tube from the catch can. Did you leave it in the pan or did you remove it.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on February 10, 2012, 02:01:07 PM
Light blue and light green show the same code? LB?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 10, 2012, 04:49:46 PM
Light blue and light green show the same code? LB?
Oops, that's a typo!  I'll redo that and edit when I update.  I try not to skin my knuckles but I did hit my thumb with the angle grinder a few weeks ago.  Finally stopped oozing a few days ago...  :hack:  The catch can tube is still on there but it is plugged.  If I have time, I'll probably make up a blanking plate instead.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on February 11, 2012, 10:51:56 PM
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/Windshield-Nozzle-Replacement/sad_cat_is_sad156.jpg)

Yeah, they are cute when they are kittens, but kittens grow up to be cats, and apparently cats carry infectious brain control pathogens that will turn us into zombies.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 14, 2012, 09:32:00 AM
Happy Valentine's Day!  Besides the logistics involved in having sex with a woman in the room, I'm quite happy to be a bachelor these days.  It's 1:15am and I'm sitting down to type this without anyone complaining.  London Calling is cranking on the speakers.  I've just had a second slice of cold pizza - because I can.  There's a cold beer and I don't need to be to work early since I don't need to be home early.  Oh yeah, the motor is in.   :bannana:

I got most everything buttoned up and although I still need to do a few things, I couldn't resist the urge to put the darn thing in.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2127665.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2137667.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2137668.sized.jpg)

There were a few things I wasn't looking forward to like digging the wire for the 1.6 oil sender out of the 1.6 harness.  How's this for dumb luck?  It's wrapped with the starter and alternator wires! :bannana::bannana:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2147669.sized.jpg)

While I was at it, I put in the PPF, driveline and exhaust.  The harness from the battery got routed and I hooked up the neutral sensor and reverse lights from the transmission.  Before the engine went in, I stuffed the MSM engine harness through the firewall.  Part of my good mood came from a phone call I had earlier tonight with Travis at Boundary Engineering regarding the computer.  We discussed a solution that will allow me to use the Adaptronic ECU that was in the black car with that harness as a standalone that will cost me nothing and might actually work.  It was an epiphany regarding the part of the process I've been dreading the most.  I'm now feeling relatively confident the car will actually be running for MRLS. :bannana::bannana::bannana:

Here's something you don't see outside this zip code very often:  An MSM engine in an NA!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2147670.sized.jpg)
 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on February 14, 2012, 04:22:06 PM
Looking great..!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on February 14, 2012, 06:53:18 PM
I'm mad jealous... That separated gases dp is awesome!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: apagios on February 14, 2012, 08:35:40 PM
Congrats on getting the engine in!  & the ECU solution!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: broken on February 14, 2012, 08:47:31 PM
Nice job! :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: CharlesE on February 14, 2012, 11:18:32 PM
I can only imagine the work involved in this build, but it looks so FACTORY.

Impressive.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: miatajim on February 14, 2012, 11:29:38 PM
Love this build.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 15, 2012, 02:44:28 AM
The first version of the wiring will be a horrendous rats nest to start with. The initial goal is to just get it running and I don't want to add variables by cutting out a bunch of stuff.  The plug for the 1.6 AFM for instance:  I don't need it but if I whack it out and something grounds out causing a fuse to mysteriously blow I could be chasing my tail for weeks. There are also a few wires buried deep in the 1.6 harness that need to be used... I just don't know what they are yet. After MRLS I will clean everything up and remove 99% of the 1.6 engine harness and clean up the MSM engine harness that will be carrying the mail. Of course, tuning and fine tuning will be ongoing ;) !


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 15, 2012, 08:36:07 AM
I'm mad jealous... That separated gases dp is awesome!
It does make crazy power.  Now at least the bottom end of the engine can withstand the forces when the boost wants to wander into the mid-high teens due to the lack of backpressure.  :angel1:  No pics tonight but some adventures:

I added oil and a filter to the mix and wanted to hear it crank over under its own power.  I looped the fuel lines, hooked up the battery and gave it a twist.  Nothing.  I had already jumpered the clutch switch and checked power at the starter, etc.  I crawled back under the dash to double check the work when I found a heavy pair of wires in a female plug that didn't go to anything.  I decided that was strange so I stuck a meter on them.  They were dead except when the key went to crank.  Apparently, the NA6 cars have a heavy starter interlock instead of lighter duty bits on our clutch switch.  Now I wonder what I jumpered previously...   Note to self:  Remove bulb from Airbag warning light...  ::)

At any rate, she cranked right over.  The battery got tired before I saw the oil pressure move but it sounded good anyway.  Progress is progress.  I didn't hear the fuel pump kick on so that's a mystery to solve.  It wouldn't shock me if it doesn't like the fact that no sensors are talking to it.  (1.6 harness totally disconnected in the engine bay). 

I need to start getting serious on the intake plumbing.  I'm considering getting a cheap Harbor Freight hydraulic pipe bender and bead roller and making the whole thing out 2.25"  ID x .125" aluminum.  That matches my fleabay intercooler and the throttle body.  That and several silicone couplers might do the trick.  I'm off for the next two days so I just need to get focused and knock a few things out.  It's easy to walk into the garage and be overwhelmed so I need to stay calm, focused and move forward.  Progress is progress.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 15, 2012, 12:56:44 PM
BTW, the MSM has 2 switches on the clutch and the heavy wires at the bottom of the clutch throw are the starter wires.  The lighter wires at the top are the neutral switch wires for the ECU idle control and for the OEM cruise control.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 15, 2012, 06:32:55 PM
Interesting. I'm using the MSM pedal set but I didn't see an unused switch to correspond to this plug. Now I'm going to need to crawl back under there and look again :lol: !


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 16, 2012, 01:01:58 AM
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album38/clutch_switch.jpg)

Should be 66-4DO  On the firewall side of the assembly. 


FM sells the bypass clip to hold the switch closed so it's like your always stepping on the pedal.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=&parentid=&stocknumber=08-80000


(http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/08-80000.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 16, 2012, 02:48:32 AM
Found it in a box!  I must have planned to bypass it and then forgot so when I put the pedal set in it wasn't there to spark my memory. I'll just take the plug and solder the wires together in a loop.  That should be a safe permanent fix...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 16, 2012, 09:31:06 AM
Got a few things done today.  I used a hose from a GM Yukon for the reroute as pioneered by the nice folks at Miataturbo.  My BEGI reroute didn't fit as well with the hose so I spliced in an unidentified partner and now all is good.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167675.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167680.sized.jpg)

I installed the M-Tuned fuel rail to go with my Deatschwerks injectors that were in the black car.  Getting the FPR oriented to fit with the VICS manifold wasn't fun but it's good now...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167677.sized.jpg)

Note to anyone reading:  Next time you change out your clutch slave cylinder, you are hereby required to get the clutch line hose from 949 Racing.  This replaces the rubber line from behind the intake manifold all the way to the slave including the stupid coil that makes it difficult to install and bleed a new slave.  It literally took 5 minutes to install it and the new slave.  Incidentally 949 sells the slave for around $15.  I think the line was $39.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167676.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167678.sized.jpg)

I spend a few hours working with a 1/8" aluminum sheet to make a new tombstone for the various gauges and switches.  Here is a sneak preview:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167679.sized.jpg)

It's light as a feather and will allow me to mount any gauges and switches I need.  The sides are mounted to 2x3" rectangle.  The 3" dimension is what the OEM tombstone is spaced away from the dash bracket.  I drilled and tapped into it and used the 4 mounting tabs.  The front will get 4 countersunk machine screws so it can all come out for working behind there.  I'll post more on all of this when I get it more finished.  :mrgreen:

The wiring in the car is going to be simply hideous for a while.  Having two complete engine harnesses in the car is a nightmare aesthetically but I believe it is a necessary evil.  I'm already planning next winter's work that will involve making all of this clean and beautiful.  Somehow the thought of pulling the motor for a week's worth of wire tucking and eliminating of the 1.6 stuff doesn't seem scary after all of this.  I wonder why... :roll:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on February 16, 2012, 11:21:52 AM
If you bypass the switch, and in a race car you should, don't forget about it.  I have seen a car driving itself in the pits because the owner had the car in gear and turned the key forgetting the car was going to start.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 16, 2012, 03:32:42 PM
I've had the switch bypassed on the black car for years so I'm used to parking in neutral and checking that before I turn the key.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 17, 2012, 09:47:29 AM
Tinkered with things some more today.  I also got a stereo put in the tow vehicle since it didn't come with anything.  I don't need much but a 1,000 mile drive with no music would suck a bit...  Why do all new radios need to have so many flashing lights and look as expensive as possible?  I will be pissed if someone breaks my window to steal my $100 stereo.  Oh well, free installation so it was one less thing I need to do.   :mrgreen:

With the coolant reroute comes a few complications.  I blocked the front at the head so there is no water neck in the front to route the normal hoses through.  Obviously, I'm not running the interheater through the throttle body but I did want to retain the OEM oil cooler this time around.  The nipple for it is on the back of the head near the reroute but not part of that assembly.  The hose coming out of the cooler is supposed to go somewhere that no longer exists so I routed the cooler directly to the return manifold.  Luck me, they are two different sizes...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167681.sized.jpg)

This little bracket came off the subframe and is normally used to secure some power steering junk.  I modified it to use one of the bosses from the intake support that is no longer there.  Fit perfectly.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167682.sized.jpg)

I'm not 100% happy with all of this but I did get the fuel system in and working.  I could have routed things better, got 90 degree barbs for the ends of the rail and a less massive T but this works for now and it will allow me to keep an eye on things vs. a small leak under the manifold that I might not be able to see.  All the failure points are right out in plain view and all of the hoses are (or will be) clad in split loom for extra protection.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167683.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167684.sized.jpg)

Once it was all in and sealed up, it ran an extra hose from the return to a can and pumped the last 4 gallons of regular out of the tank and poured it into the F150.  When this thing fires to life, it will need better gas.  I also pinched the return line and was happy to find no leaks.

I did some more work on the tombstone.  I drilled and tapped four M6 1.0 holes and countersunk 4 stainless steel machine screws.  It's way too much shine right now - perhaps powerdercoat it black?  Maybe a bunch of gauges and switches will help it be less in-your-face.  I need to give some serious thought to the placement of everything.  It will be an evolution and the aluminum piece was only $25 or so.  I could certainly do it over if I don't like the direction it is going.  BTW, did you know you can shape .125" aluminum with woodworking tools?  Yup, a router made those cuts and a belt sander cleaned it all up.  Maybe next time I'll just build a car out of plywood...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167685.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2167686.sized.jpg)

There will be a lot of random things that need power in the car and the OEM harness will be rapidly diminishing as I go so a good source of power convenient to the console is important.  A convenient ground point was also needed.  The power block got tapped with the same M6 1.0 and the ground points were sandwiched between 2 copper washers with the paint scraped away around the hole.  Some of the power will be constant and some switched depending on what I'm doing.  The next step is to start heating up some of the engine harness stuff and see if I can get the Adaptronic to say hi to the laptop and read some sensors.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2177687.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on February 17, 2012, 05:09:19 PM
How about plastidip on the aluminum panel to cut down on glare? You can always peel it off later if you decide to go with powdercoat route. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: VolCrew on February 17, 2012, 07:29:34 PM
noticed the cruise control stalk - that'll come in handy on those really long straights!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 18, 2012, 08:09:30 AM
noticed the cruise control stalk - that'll come in handy on those really long straights!
I'll be installing a cup holder for my morning coffee and skinning the Corbeau to install a seat heater.  I draw the line at PS and AC though - need to keep the engine bay as clean as possible.   :)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on February 18, 2012, 09:48:03 AM
How about plastidip on the aluminum panel to cut down on glare? You can always peel it off later if you decide to go with powdercoat route. 

Consider sandblasting the aluminium tombstone, it will dull it down and give this type of finish:

(http://www.p-wholesale.com/upimg/21/837a1/sandblasting-aluminum-floor-edging-347.jpg)

Another cheap option is Wrinkle-Black paint. The problem with paint though is that when scratched it will look obvious and start to peel.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 19, 2012, 04:39:08 AM
It's covered in blue painter's tape right now while I think about the gauge/switch layout. Looks kinda good! :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 20, 2012, 09:42:27 AM
Got a little done tonight.  I routed a power lead from the engine compartment box to my little mini fuse box behind the console and started brainstorming toggle switches.  So far I have:
1.  Engine (including accessory on the same relay - future switch for starter button).
2.  ECU.  I like the idea of the ECU being on its own switch.  That way I can turn it on to program without having the whole car powered up.
3.  WBO2.  This will also power all of the gauges that are being added.
4.  ABS.  For when I really want to thrash my brake pads.
5.  Boost.  Because I can, I'm going to have a switch to send juice to the EBC.  It can be left off for rain or guest drivers who scare me more than the car scares them.   >:(

There could be more added as we go - not really fixed on the layout of lineup yet...

I fabbed up a quick bracket for the ECU.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2207690.sized.jpg) 

The cover still fits for the feet of those screaming passengers.   :angel1:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2207692.sized.jpg)

I was hoping to route the wideband somewhere more interesting than through the tranny turret but it would have required new holes cut - not interested.  I figured I'd zip tie the LC-1 right in plain sight.  It looks kind of cool there.  Functional bling (or too many beers while working...)  :hic:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2207691.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 22, 2012, 09:26:37 AM
Lots of little details today including such boring bits as finishing the transmission/downpipe brace.  With the extra brace, the OEM bolts don't have as many threads to engage so I picked up some longer, fully threaded bolts.  The engine, manifold, turbo, downpipe and transmission are now one solid piece.  I almost finished wiring up the wideband.  I'd forgotten what a PITA that process is.  5 wires off the gauge an 6 wires off the controller - most to different things.  I also got the boost gauge 75% in.  Most of the time was spent on the console plate.

First, I wanted the OEM hazdard/headlight switch where it belongs.  Don't ask why, it just felt like something I wanted to do.   :laugh:  To complete this without drilling mounting bolts through the face, I had to make a little sleeve to hold the switch and JB Weld a bracket onto the back.  I used self-tapping screws to hold those together so the switch is removable.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2217697.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2217698.sized.jpg)

Here is the basic layout so far.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227700.sized.jpg)

I'm planning to mount the phone there since it is my lap timer for now.  I'll put in a USB jack for power and I still need to drill and mount the blower switch.  The button and LED are for the LC-1 - it gives status and reset ability.  I don't have a specific purpose for all 7 switches yet but 5 of them are accounted for so it shouldn't be hard to find 2 more things that need power.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: lassi on February 22, 2012, 11:14:40 AM
Looks nice! Am jelly of your project. Too bad I really have no reason to do a project like yours. (8hrs to closest track..)
I would love to just go all out with my own ideas without having to consider daily driving, road worthyness or inspections.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on February 22, 2012, 06:16:01 PM
I don't have a specific purpose for all 7 switches yet but 5 of them are accounted for so it shouldn't be hard to find 2 more things that need power.

Passenger side ejector seat and oil slick sprayer in back bumper.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 22, 2012, 11:06:36 PM
I strap the passengers down tight so they don't get scared and jump out at 130.  I'm going to skip the oil dispensing system and hopefully the engine doesn't do it automatically. It is refreshing to build something with no compromises (besides money :shockeyes: ).  It is allowing me to feed the mod addiction without molesting the poor MSM as much. 

We are blessed to have a half dozen good tracks within a 5 hour drive and that many more overnight into California. I've personally be on 8 different tracks with the MSM and a completely new one is open this year. I can't wait to get on there too!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: JoeMazda585 on February 22, 2012, 11:14:41 PM
ive found that with aluminum- if you hit it good with a wire wheel and then use the wrinkle paint it will stick very strong. heatgun for a few mins between coats and it cures even stronger. but the more heat early on- the less the wrinkle. gotta practice to find the heat range for different types of wrinkles.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 24, 2012, 10:36:17 AM
Well, since I had all the woodworking tools in the garage, I thought I'd put some actual wood into the build:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227701.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227702.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227704.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227705.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227706.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2227707.sized.jpg).

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2247710.sized.jpg)

The first part of the day was spent installing Joey's awesome spring centering bushings on the Xidas.  We can discuss that in the other thread.  The Adaptronic came to life tonight also.  I have most sensors reporting so it's just a matter of time to get it to fire.  I cranked it over for a while and didn't get any oil pressure.  Hopefully that works itself out.  I verified that the instrument cluster is getting power without the 1.6 ECU plugged in.  Very few of those wires are doing anything...  I also put in the 1.125" front sway put the upper and lower hoses on the radiator and added water.  Those constant torque clamps are going to be the end of me...  Oh - went and got 8 gallons of 92 for the gas tank.  Can't very well ask it to start with no fuel!  Tired now and lucky me, I need to work tomorrow...  >:(


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 29, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
I've been quite proud of this project up until recently.  The engine compartment is proving to be quite a mess.  There are two complete engine harnesses here, a coolant reroute that doesn't route as well as I had hoped and a full intake that is cobbled from leftover OEM bits, an FM intake purchased used from a member here and a 2.5" DIY kit off fleabay.  It doesn't route as well as I wanted and is generally messy - plus I have only pieced it together.  I need to bead roll everything when I get if fit finally.

All that said, the intake is in and I put the nose back on:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297715.sized.jpg)

Hotside mess:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297716.sized.jpg)

Coldside that actually looks pretty good beside the tube making contact with the sway:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297717.sized.jpg)

Swaybar mount support block to help transfer load to the frame:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297718.sized.jpg)

Frighteningly close clearance from the sway to the shock body:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297719.sized.jpg)

The throttle body.  I'm not happy at all with the BOV location but the NA headlights make the MSM intake a bit of a challenge to work around...
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297720.sized.jpg)

To guarantee with certainty that I won't be able to get the car running without more wiring under the dash, I installed the seat and gauge hood.  This seals my fate...
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P2297721.sized.jpg)

Everything is finally ready to start the car.  It won't of course - acute lack of fuel or spark so I'm working through that.  I do need to put fluid in the tranny and differential.  There is just water in the radiator so once I do a few heat cycles and make sure there are no leaks, I'll drain a bit out for a 70/30 mix give-or-take.  When I need a mental break from figuring out why it won't run, I can put on fenders, doors and the hard top.  Next will be an eyeball alignment.  I do need to get the exhaust hangers finished but for now double hangers, a bolt, nut and two fender washers are working just fine.   :angel1:

When I started planning this project out in my head last fall, I targeted the end of February to have the engine to fire on its own so I'm not too far off.  Maybe with the leapyear, I can get lucky tomorrow night!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 01, 2012, 09:18:32 AM
When I started planning this project out in my head last fall, I targeted the end of February to have the engine to fire on its own so I'm not too far off.  Maybe with the leapyear, I can get lucky tomorrow night!
Since there was absolutely no fire, I decided to start doing a little proper troubleshooting.  I dug out my old timing light that I haven't used since my last distributor car back in the early 90's.  It worked and with my 14 year old daughter in the driver's seat cranking (she was thrilled, let me tell you...  :roll: ), I verified that the coils were at least firing in some fashion.  Next was the injectors.  More cranking - zero activity.  I thank the teenager and let her go back to bed...  :buck2:.  I pull out the meter and verify the white/blue wire that I added power to at the ECU was not the same white/blue wire at the injector harness.  Figures...   :banghead:

I track it down, do some quick soldering and presto!  +12v at the injectors.  30 seconds later I took this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqG7Xu3tG4s&list=UUWmFKe7puUGsXFsknSLhYRA&index=1&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqG7Xu3tG4s&list=UUWmFKe7puUGsXFsknSLhYRA&index=1&feature=plcp)

My excitement turned to sadness 30 seconds after the video was shot when I found oil pouring out the transmission weep hole.  I'm going to go way out on a limb and speculate that I didn't get the rear main seal seated properly.  My thoughts on this can't really be expressed by forum policy regarding language (most of the words have four letters - strung together for several minutes...)  :tickedoff:

Here's the plan for tomorrow:  With the engine in place, full of fluids, manifold/turbo/downpipe carefully assembled and all the tedious wiring and intake work, I think the logical approach is to pull the tranny from below leaving the engine in place.  Sound fair?  This way, I do need to pull the exhaust but the transmission is still empty - would have got juice in the morning if this had gone better.  Advice and suggestions are appreciated...  :(

A range of emotions on leapyear for sure...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: CharlesE on March 01, 2012, 10:53:44 AM
As an eternal optimist....the fact that the engine ran, means you're still on schedule. :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on March 01, 2012, 02:40:04 PM
Your plan sounds like the best way to tackle the problem.

Do you always get your 14 year old out of bed at 2AM to help you with troubleshooting???    :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 01, 2012, 05:55:02 PM
Do you always get your 14 year old out of bed at 2AM to help you with troubleshooting???    :laugh:
Only when I'm really stuck and let's be fair, it was barely midnight at the time!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on March 01, 2012, 05:59:41 PM
Wow

Dad of the Year!!    :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 01, 2012, 06:14:13 PM
It would have taken me an extra 20 minutes to rig up a starter switch!  Why do that when the child can just turn the key?   ::)  :help:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on March 01, 2012, 06:16:35 PM
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 05, 2012, 12:23:22 PM
It's alive!  This time no leaks.  I didn't get to heat cycle enough to get the fans on because the neighbor came wandering over in her bathrobe (4am local time) and asked me to do it another time.   :roll:  That woman is a light sleeper!  Last summer I was working in the driveway with simple hand tools and she heard them but I can understand with the windows open.  It's the dead of winter right now and we're having a little mini storm with ~20 to 30 mph winds.  I guess I'll go to bed.  The morning will have some body panels put on along with some wheels an maybe... gasp... go for a drive!!!   :beer:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: miatajim on March 05, 2012, 12:25:57 PM
 :beer: :beer: Good to hear.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on March 05, 2012, 12:49:22 PM
It's alive!  This time no leaks.  I didn't get to heat cycle enough to get the fans on because the neighbor came wandering over in her bathrobe (4am local time) and asked me to do it another time.   :roll:  That woman is a light sleeper!  Last summer I was working in the driveway with simple hand tools and she heard them but I can understand with the windows open.  It's the dead of winter right now and we're having a little mini storm with ~20 to 30 mph winds.  I guess I'll go to bed.  The morning will have some body panels put on along with some wheels an maybe... gasp... go for a drive!!!   :beer:

Take your neighbor and leave her in the woods somewhere!   :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: miatajim on March 05, 2012, 01:03:19 PM
Ask her to start it, and let the child sleep?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on March 05, 2012, 01:33:59 PM
Ask her to start it, and let the child sleep?

Great idea Jim.  Maybe she just wants to be involved!!!!    :laugh:

Also prevents Brian from getting arrested for child abuse.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 05, 2012, 07:21:08 PM
It's all good. The troubleshooting I needed the teenager to crank the engine for is resolved... And it was running when the neighbor showed up.... ;)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on March 06, 2012, 02:43:57 AM
So is it time put in the passenger seat yet?   :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: yahtah on March 06, 2012, 06:17:05 AM
I was gonna vote for asking the neighbor in for a drink, but thought that would take the project WAY off track!  :smitten: Wait til the car is done and you've gone to MRLS before you do!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 06, 2012, 09:22:37 AM
I was gonna vote for asking the neighbor in for a drink, but thought that would take the project WAY off track!  :smitten: Wait til the car is done and you've gone to MRLS before you do!  :mrgreen:
Yeah, no.  She is nice but ~20 years older than me and her husband is a nice guy.  He was the one that helped me push the wreck into the garage back in October!  We've come a long way since then!!

My first thought as I was working today is that a higher power wanted to make sure I didn't get excited and try to drive it before I checked everything over...
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P3057722.sized.jpg)
It didn't accumulate much but I don' think the bald NT-01s would appreciate it much.   :shockeyes:

Today I got quite a bit done.  I put in the rear ladder brace on the sub frame.  As some might know, there are no mounting bosses in the NA tub to attach the 4 forward bolts.  I got out Mr. Sawzall and whacked the front of it off so I could at least connect the bottom of the sub frame.  The juice went in the differential and transmission and the MR tall shortshifter that had been in the black car went in (I got the 'short' one to replace it - equally nice feeling).
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P3067728.sized.jpg)

Next up was a proper routing of the wideband:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P3067729.sized.jpg)

Several hours went into putting all the body panels on including the hard top that is now bolted down.  The engine bay is getting closer with some of the hacked in intake plumbing supported.  I think we're ready to go!
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P3067727.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MSM606Build/P3067726.sized.jpg)

The fans weren't working on a daytime (neighborhood sponsored) heat cycle.  I'll need to fix that but I really don't care if I have to run a relay to a toggle switch.  We're still a little bit away from the passenger seat but I'm starting to feel more confident I'll actually have the car at least on track for the first session at MRLS.  Hopefully later in the week I'll feel more confident about the 2nd, 3rd and 4th session and Sunday as well.   :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 07, 2012, 05:30:55 AM
I got back from the first test drive a bit ago.  I was glorious!  Loud, visceral and primitive.  The car felt angry, like a beast that has been in a cage for 4 months that has just been let out.  This is during the engine break-in so I'm on wastegate pressure and really just running up and down the RPM range while letting the motor pull down in full vacuum as much as possible. There were no long pulls in boost but you can tell it wants to run.  These are the first revolutions I've put on the tranny and differential and I'm happy to report everything feels smooth.  The brake pedal is hard as a rock and the spacing of the pedals themselves feel excellent - there was some massaging done to help the spacing.

I got the fans to cycle so check that one off the list.  I'm going to put cables in the door handle release in a minute so I can put the window in.  Did anyone see the picture of snow I posted yesterday?  Well, yeah... It's still below freezing and that's no fun with no windows!   ::)  I also stopped by Home Depot Motorsports for stuff to finish up the air box.  The heater core isn't very effective with no air blowing through it.  With a little luck, I'll put some break in miles on it this week, change the oil and find a test-n-tune day somewhere the next week.  There are a dozen little details that need to be done still but we're getting there!!
 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on March 07, 2012, 05:37:07 AM
Congrads!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 07, 2012, 10:07:29 AM
And despair...  The clutch is slipping.   :'(  The good news is it's running great.  I don't think I have the emotional energy to pull the motor again so I'm going to see if I can use my friend's lift.  I'd rather have it done in a day without disrupting all of the things that are going well... In the meantime, I can drive it enough to break in the engine and get the basic tuning done plus work out some of the little details.  Feel free to chime in on my new thread in the tech section soliciting opinions on clutches and flywheels.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 09, 2012, 09:32:36 AM
I spent about 2 hours calibrating the temperature sensors tonight and then went on an 80 mile drive.  Calibrating the sensors is an exercise in patience.  You basically remove the sensor from the engine and plug it back into the harness.  Boil some water in a pyrex and put the business end of the sensor in the boiling water.  With a digital thermometer or pyrometer, take the temp of the sensor in the water and hit the 'learn' button on the ECU software as you pass each point on the ADC map (9 degrees f at a time).  Once you get down around ambient, slowly add ice until you calibrate ~32 degrees with a nice ice water bath.  I did this for water and intake air.

The drive went very well and the clutch is starting to grab.  I'm just at ~8psi wastegate pressure and the tach hasn't been hooked up yet so I'm not doing any crazy pulls but I couldn't feel it slipping.  As the first track day is Laguna Seca, I can't have any unknowns with the clutch.  The Rahal Straits between T7 and the Corkscrew is a long WOT pull climbing well over 100 feet in altitude.  If a clutch is ever going to slip, it will be there.

The oil pressure is concerning me.  I think I have a sticky relief valve.  It reads high but pegs to 90 psi under load.  At idle, it drops down to closer to 60.  I've read reports that they sometime pop loose on their own and high pressure is better than the valve being stuck at the other extreme - no pressure.  I may shoot myself in the head if I need to pull the motor again anyway...  Stay tuned.   :buck2:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: dvdreith on March 09, 2012, 11:48:46 AM
I can imagine how discouraging this can be... but in an attempt to kindle some motivation, pop your head over to mt.net and read through feaflora's build thread... lol

I wonder if it is slipping because of left over oil residue?

Either way I look forward to seeing this completed! !!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on March 09, 2012, 12:22:09 PM
I spent about 2 hours calibrating the temperature sensors tonight and then went on an 80 mile drive.  Calibrating the sensors is an exercise in patience.  You basically remove the sensor from the engine and plug it back into the harness.  Boil some water in a pyrex and put the business end of the sensor in the boiling water.  With a digital thermometer or pyrometer, take the temp of the sensor in the water and hit the 'learn' button on the ECU software as you pass each point on the ADC map (9 degrees f at a time).  Once you get down around ambient, slowly add ice until you calibrate ~32 degrees with a nice ice water bath.  I did this for water and intake air.
:

WARNING: DO NOT USE A COMMERCIAL PYREX BOWL/DISH FOR THIS!

I went through the same exercise and bought a pyrex bowl specifically for this purpose. I'd calibrated the IAT2 sensor up to 100*C and turned the burner off and went in the house for a break. Not long after leaving the garage, I heard an explosion and ran back into the garage to find the pyrex bowl had exploded.

Commercial-grade Pyrex is NOT the same stuff we use in High School chemistry labs, it's MUCH lower quality. I suspect that because I was heating the bowl from below, the pyrex bowl wasn't being heated evenly (as it would in an oven) and when I turned the burner off, it cooled down at different rates and shattered.

For details of this misadventure, or just to see how its' done, see http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=41091&start=125 (http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=41091&start=125).


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 09, 2012, 06:44:20 PM
I had read that about Pyrex so I heated mine in the microwave. Thanks for mentioning it specifically though ;)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 14, 2012, 09:08:21 AM
Things stalled a bit.  One concern I had not posted about was extremely high oil pressure.  I suspected a stuck pressure relief valve and a second sending unit yielded the same pressure (pegged at 90 unless idling and hot).  I had rolled the dice on an unknown oil pump and now I couldn't trust it... so... the engine came out again yesterday.  New OEM oil pump arrives tomorrow and I'll put it and the happy meal in at the same time.  Good gawd, the thing was running great though.  I never had it idling that well in the black car and it just felt great.  I'm really looking forward to getting things back together.

There's an outside shot that I'll be ready for a test-n-tune at the big track Saturday.  I could be ready if I really pushed it but I'm leaning towards just some intense street tuning before MRLS instead.  Saturday is the last opportunity for track trials so if it doesn't work, I'll try to avoid hitting the switch marked 'Boost' and just get through the weekend in Monterrey.  I can beat the world later in the summer - now is the time for patience and baby steps.  Like that will work for me...  :roll:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: yahtah on March 15, 2012, 04:00:02 AM
Hyde, it's getting close, but you may need to take a breath.  :o  Go have a Crab Feast and come back a day later. If it will help, you can tow here in advance and do some fine tuning at my house, about 35 mins away from MRLS. I even have a hoist and a garage.  ;D


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 15, 2012, 11:56:31 AM
Thanks!  Motor came out and disassembled Monday. Today the oil pump arrived. After work, I put it in, got the motor reassembled including the new clutch and back in the car. I think I'll snooze for a few hours before picking things up in the morning.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on March 15, 2012, 01:24:24 PM
Have you started to time yourself on pulling and reinstalling the motor?  You ought to be getting proficient at it by now.   ;D


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 15, 2012, 07:27:34 PM
Estimates are 2.5 hours to have it out with transmission. 5 hours to R&R the pan/oil pump. 6 hours to install motor including fluid and connections (driveline and exhaust, etc.). Remember, I don't have AC or PS to deal with and I haven't put on the oil cooler yet.  This is not something I wanted practice this much. PITA


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 16, 2012, 07:15:55 AM
Back in the saddle! (Cue Aerosmith)  :mrgreen:  My gauge is still reading too high with the new pump but I have a lot more peace of mind knowing the new OEM pump is good.  I will go through the bother of putting a mechanical gauge on to relieve any residual concerns before MRLS.  One thing I AM sure of... The FM Supersized Happy Meal clutch is NOT slipping.   :shockeyes:  I had a Mustang GT in college with a Motorsports Racing Clutch that felt like this.  Your leg actually ached in stop-n-go traffic.  Fortunately this car won't be in that kind of traffic!

I still need to adjust the pedal and adjust the driver's tendency to forget about the clutch and kill the poor car coming off a stop but I'm sure that habit will get better soon.  After the motor's initial startup after being disassembled and turned upside down, there was no smoke or drama during the ~30 mile test drive.  When I got home I hooked up the boost control which I have promised myself I'm not going to use until I get things shaken down properly.  What are the chances I'll have that self control?   :roll:

Prior to the drive I did, however, hook up the switch for the ABS.  I am happy to report it works fine!  I had some tools sitting in the passenger floor that I didn't want to go flying so I only stabbed it twice, but it did work.  There is nothing unusual hooked up beside the 3 power leads, the 2 (IIRC) grounding points and the sensors on the 4 corners.  Self-contained awesomeness!  If I want to get fancy later, I can hook up the 'trouble' wire to an idiot light in the cluster but otherwise, this has worked out well.  There has been some discussion about the proper procedure to bleed the ABS module and I didn't do anything beyond the normal bleeding.  The pedal on this car is harder than the black car.  With that said, I'm going to leave it off on the track during dry conditions.  When we get a wet day at the cart track, I will run it hard and see if I can induce a failure in 2nd gear at ~40mph instead of 6th gear at 130...   :P

I did this light-duty mod to allow the iphone laptimer to be mounted securely and not kill the iphone's battery by the end of the second session.  The second port could be for the GoPro if I get frisky later.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/P3157734.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on March 16, 2012, 01:35:09 PM
Congratulations on a near-complete track beast.  I wish that I had the funds (and time) to prep such a car for our local track.

I especially like the "garage door opener transmitter" mod just ahead of the shifter boot !  :laugh:

Seriously; I'm in awe of your mechanical and engineering prowess.

Zoom-Zoom


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 16, 2012, 04:15:18 PM
I especially like the "garage door opener transmitter" mod just ahead of the shifter boot !  :laugh:

Got to get out and in of the garage!   :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 20, 2012, 04:01:16 AM
OK - good news.  I borrowed a mechanical oil pressure gauge from '95MSM and finally go a hold of the 1/8-28 BSP adapter to hook it up tonight.  The pressure is text book.  ~80 cold, dropping to a hot idle ~30.  Rev the motor hot and you can see the pressure relief valve kick.  It holds ~65 to 70 hot while in the 5k to 6k range.  Troubleshooting the OEM sender/gauge issue is now officially at the bottom of my to-do list.  In the meantime, it will act like an idiot light.  If I'm blasting through the gears and the needle isn't pegged at 90, I know I need to shut down immediately. 

I'm still not as annoyed as you might think regarding the other pump and the work involved to R&R it.  Time to move forward and finish the last bits.  I leave in 9 days so the clock is ticking!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 21, 2012, 08:47:00 AM
A few bits of progress the last two days.  Yesterday I got an alignment.  My '2x4 eyeball' alignment had the toe at exactly .5* in on each side.  I consider that pretty darn good!   :lol:  I didn't even attempt the camber so it had some adjustments needed.  I'm starting with 2.5 front and 2.0 rear and neutral toe.  The caster is in the 5 to 6 range but I'm too tired to look at the slip to see what he ended up at.  My buddy's lead tech is about 6'4" and it was very entertaining to see him try to get in and out of the car!   ;D

I got the fuel pump working correctly.  It now runs off the ECU instead of a screw grounding it to the tunnel.  I also got the tach working and put the oil pressure sending unit back in.  I adjusted the clutch pedal so it wasn't right on the floor.  Now maybe I can coast to a stop with it in gear without stalling the engine.   ::)  I spent some time on the phone with Travis discussing the switching of the VICS by the VTCS wiring.  That will need to wait until tomorrow.  Now that I have a working tach and know the oil pressure is correct, I need to do a few extended pulls to (near) triple digits without getting arrested and see how things react.  MRLS has three long sections that require long pulls in tall gears and I don't want any surprises.

Tomorrow I'm going to get the HF bead roller I need to roll the intake piping.  Otherwise it is just a matter of time before pop goes the weasel and I say bad words after jump starting my heart.  There is a TNT at the big track Saturday and I'd REALLY like to shake things out but I should really also be at work since I'm out for 10 days starting next Wednesday.  Curses...   :angry9:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 22, 2012, 10:29:12 AM
A bit more progress today.  First, it was nice out so I worked a little on the tow vehicle and the trailer.  The jack on the trailer was rusting out of a horrendous weld done by the PO.  In addition, it was in a position where it wouldn't allow me to drop the tailgate with the trailer hooked up so that needed to go.  I ground it out and welded it onto two vertical surfaces closer to the trailer deck.  Big improvement!

I did a little more wiring work on the car today also.  For some reason, the 2nd fan wasn't being triggered by the relay that triggers the main fan.  I'm sure the logic for it comes out of some combination of circumstances related to the 1.6 ECU that is missing so instead, I borrowed the unused coil lead from the fender well and ran a wire to a switch.  At some point after MRLS, I'll hook that second fan into the ECU.  That will give each fan a unique logic and trigger but when things are really hot, they will both be on.

I went for a test drive and was able to do a few deep pulls into the low triple digits with a tach.  The boost control still isn't working (not sure why - I'll address that later too) but the boost level wandered up to the 13 to 14 range that I had been seeing in the black car.  That's no surprise since it is basically the same from the engine to the tail pipe.  Nothing blew up when I hit my temporary 6,800 redline.  Next on the to-do list was bead rolling the intake pipes.

I bought an $89 2.5" DIY kit from a Chinese prison through ebay and the quality is really good - I just needed to bead roll the ends so they don't pop at inconvenient times.  Speaking of the Chinese prison, I got this from Harbor Freight:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/P3227735.sized.jpg)

It worked OK but needed to be reinforced.  I am disappointed it won't work for any of the 2" piping I have on the turbo side.  The dies are 2" so 2.5" pipe is the minimum.  Here are some beads:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/P3227736.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/P3227737.sized.jpg)

And the finished product:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/P3227738.sized.jpg)

I would have preferred black silicone couplers but they were more money and I'm trying to be cheap.  Stay tuned for more tomorrow!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 24, 2012, 11:02:19 PM
It's 50 degrees and sunny in Seattle today and the big track was having their last test-n-tune for the local racers today.  Fairly open sessions for $125 which is more than half off what we pay for your typical HPDE.  Drum roll please...

Car ran great!  I'm still on wastegate boost and with the 4.10 gears, I'm going to run out of speed later in the summer when I get things more sorted.  As it is, things get pretty light in a stock NA body with no aero (no OEM undertray either).  My best speed through T1 today was 127 (gps) and it was not my favorite part of the track!   :shockeyes:

I'll post some fun video tonight of me chasing down a Lamborghini.  He shoots cool little flames out his pipes when he lifts throttle!  ^-^  The lap times are ~2 seconds off my personal best in the black car but the track is green, I'm down on power (which bad drivers use as a crutch), and I wasn't pushing things at all.  This is going to be a fun car!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 25, 2012, 06:24:18 AM
It didn't blow up.  Here's the proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2_k8_PzKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2_k8_PzKU)
If you get bored, skip to around 13 minutes when I realize there is a Lamborghini on the track.  Blood in the water!  I thought Porsches and Corvettes were fun to pass.  Regrettably, we checkered before I could get around him.   :angry9:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on March 25, 2012, 11:04:37 AM
Congratulations on an impressive shakedown run.   :D
The '90 MSM pulls strong and sounds great.  I'll bet that the Lambo driver wondered what sort of "gnat" was on his tail!   :laugh:
I wish you much success with your "new" car.   thumup


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on March 25, 2012, 08:06:26 PM
Sweet..!  Looking good.  Cool jacket btw too..


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 26, 2012, 02:16:35 AM
Thanks!  Regrettably, I'm not going to have the passenger seat ready for next weekend.  I still need to pack and prepare the house to survive for 10 days of Grandma keeping the teenagers from making the Project X sequel.   :shockeyes:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on March 26, 2012, 02:55:38 AM
    Congratulations on a successful build and making the MRLS deadline, and a shakedown test-n-tune to boot!
You are a true inspiration to all Miata and Sport Driving enthusiasts. So when does the wing show up and what color are you gonna paint the Birch splitter?...and where did you get your new embroidered fire suit?
  Looking good Brian,... looking good indeed!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on March 26, 2012, 03:24:44 AM
Thanks!  Regrettably, I'm not going to have the passenger seat ready for next weekend.  I still need to pack and prepare the house to survive for 10 days of Grandma keeping the teenagers from making the Project X sequel.   :shockeyes:

No worries, the key is car is ready for action..!  See you Sat am.. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 27, 2012, 07:10:49 AM
So when does the wing show up and what color are you gonna paint the Birch splitter?...and where did you get your new embroidered fire suit?

The wing shows up shortly after I find a spare $500 to buy it.   :'(  The birch splitter will be black but after feeling how light the rear end is at 130  :shockeyes: :shockeyes: :shockeyes: , I think it is best to wait on the splitter and air dam until the wing happens.  Your spring locators performed perfectly by the way!  The 'fire suit' is just a jacket I got off Fleabay - total knockoff of a Mazda team jacket but it works for now.  I wouldn't mind a fire suit down the line but that is another one of those expenses that will get pushed back by other needs like tires, brake pads and gas...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Nik Naym on March 29, 2012, 01:09:21 AM
"I wouldn't mind a fire suit down the line but that is another one of those expenses that will get pushed back by other needs like tires, brake pads and gas..."


As my mother used to say "It's all fun and games until someone catches their eye on fire!"

No wait....

Never mind.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 30, 2012, 03:47:05 AM
Well, somewhat unrelated to the 'build' but I just pulled into Monterrey after two days of towing.  The truck/trailer did great.  I averaged a tick over 14 mpg pulling over a pretty epic mountain range into a massive headwind.  For the price (<$2,000 for the combo), I give it an A+.  So far, so good!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: magnus on March 30, 2012, 10:31:56 PM
Well, somewhat unrelated to the 'build' but I just pulled into Monterrey after two days of towing.  The truck/trailer did great.  I averaged a tick over 14 mpg pulling over a pretty epic mountain range into a massive headwind.  For the price (<$2,000 for the combo), I give it an A+.  So far, so good!  :mrgreen:
I'll see you there. I'm stuck at work down in LA but I'll be making the 6 hour drive sometime between 5pm and 8am... Good thing I won't be tracking, since I won't be getting much sleep :-/


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 01, 2012, 02:33:34 AM
Good day at Laguna. The first session was dry and the the skies opened and dumped buckets for about an hour. Not Seattle rain either- biblical rain. It was coming down so hard I was unwilling to put on the star specs (street tires from the black car that were brought to serve rain duty).  I skipped the second session which was black flagged anyway. It let up and we did two wet sessions and by the last session it was dry on NT-01s and I finally started to feel comfortable. The best news is the car ran great!  Video will be a few days at best...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 02, 2012, 08:18:57 PM
The second day was epic. I'm currently doing time in the Atlanta airport but there will be video. A HUGE thanks to Murat for the hospitality and storage services while I travel.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on April 03, 2012, 03:16:55 AM
'04MSM guarding the '90MSM :)

(http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu128/97mmiata/90MSM.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 04, 2012, 03:46:13 AM
Now that the car is track worthy, I can spend a bit of time banging out some of those ugly dents!  Here's one of the mid-day sessions from Sunday.  I was starting to feel more comfortable with the car and the track so things were picking up.  I'll skip the video from the following session of me going 4 off in T6 while trying to keep up with Emilio driving Crusher...   :roll:  This sessions does show me catching a some miata royalty however - Flyin' Miata's FMII car Igor falls to '90MSM and the soul of chassis #606!   :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLRH-AJKG8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLRH-AJKG8)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on April 04, 2012, 07:10:19 AM
Good to hear thing went swimmingly for you down there this year. The trailer must be a good luck charm!
4 wheels off and running down faster cars! That's so unlike you....


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on April 04, 2012, 10:22:26 AM
Who was driving Igor???


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 04, 2012, 11:41:53 AM
Since I smoked Igor like a Habana special, I assume Keith wasn't driving but I'm not sure who was...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on April 04, 2012, 12:04:59 PM
Now that the car is track worthy, I can spend a bit of time banging out some of those ugly dents!  Here's one of the mid-day sessions from Sunday.  I was starting to feel more comfortable with the car and the track so things were picking up.  I'll skip the video from the following session of me going 4 off in T6 while trying to keep up with Emilio driving Crusher...   :roll:  This sessions does show me catching a some miata royalty however - Flyin' Miata's FMII car Igor falls to '90MSM and the soul of chassis #606!   :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLRH-AJKG8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLRH-AJKG8)


Congratulations on a strong run.  With your rush to finish the car in time for MRLS, it's amazingly well sorted. 

Our local club track is fun, but MRLS looks to be a hoot!  I'd love to make it there some day.

I'm impressed with your smooth driving and particularly enjoy watching you reel the slower cars in and then "Flyin'" past.   drivingss


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on April 14, 2012, 11:46:41 PM
mr_hyde, I'll start off by saying that I'm mightily impressed with your and '95MSM's MSM engine swaps into an NA, but in hindsight, if you had to do it over again, would you do it or simply add a FM StageII kit plus additional bracing to a 1.8L NA instead?

For a dedicated track car, I would think the latter solution would have been an easier route.

For a DD+track car, '95MSM's car is one of my favourite NAs since it has the NB dashboard which I think is the best looking of the NA/NB/NC MX5s (NC's dashboard looks cheap, "plasticky" and tacky IMO).


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 15, 2012, 06:42:27 AM
All very fair questions.  There were several reasons I went the path that I did.
1.  I happened across the wreck that became the donor chassis
2.  Several things from an MSM are desirable - especially the rear end and half shafts that are the strongest ever put in the first 15 model years.
3.  The black car had some good MSM specific go-fast bits that were not necessarily street friendly - specifically the whole hotside from the upgraded turbo back.
4.  Respect and admiration for '95MSM
5.  Loyalty to the group here - If I built just another turbo NA, it wouldn't be special at all and I'd really be neglecting our little family.

When I come across someone thinking about a track specific build that is considering an MSM, I always advise them to think twice.  The MSM is a special car and while it will never fetch 6 figures at a collectible auction, it is a shame to hack one up like the '90 is when you can get the same thing for less money from a base chassis and add an FMII or similar.  My situation was similar with the black car where it was getting too fast and too raw to enjoy.  On the track, it was getting too fast to be safe and it was only a matter of time before I wadded it up in a tire wall or worse.  On the street, it was like a thoroughbred giving pony rides.  It had no manners, no refinement and generally seemed to hate any kind of driving that you would do in front of a State Trooper.  As it was at the end of last season, my MSM was nothing but a series of compromises.   :'(

I had the pair of >$1,400 NAs and the red one was already prepped for the track.  My plan initially was to turbo the 1.6 (~240k mile short nose crank would have made a good story too).  When the wreck came along, too many things made sense.  I got lucky with the time/place and the rest is in the previous 13 pages.  It's been fun and my net investment in the tow vehicle, trailer, chassis and donor car is less than $5k.  That probably goes up to $6k if I pay myself $.25/hour for my labor buy who counts that?  :laugh:  Overall, what I have done isn't any more complicated than a typical 1.8 swap into an NA6.  The bare nature of the track car made a LOT of things simple and non-issues.

The '95MSM is really a completely different project.  We both have MSM drivetrains in NA chassis with upgraded turbos and ECUs.  That's really the end of the comparison.  Mark has integrated a full MSM/NB interior, air conditioning, power steering, Bose stereo and 100 other things I don't know or don't have time to list.  It is a work of art.  If the unthinkable ever happens to my black car... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on May 17, 2012, 07:34:42 AM
I've been moving much more slowly on the project since the end of March.  I did one more track day at The Ridge Motorsports Park which is a completely new complex about 2 hours south of Seattle.  The track was awesome but my 250k mile, 22 year old 1.6 alternator died.  The 1.6 alternator (and all NAs) is self regulating.  All NBs alternators are controlled by the ECU so the NA alternator is standard issue for any track build with and aftermarket ECU.

I was coming down the front strait and got a miss under high load.  It was missing badly on the back half of the track and when I came off, it died.  I dropped the clutch and kept it running to the paddock space where it died again.  When I turned the key, it was dead as a doornail.  I used the jump pack to start the car again and read ~11.x volts at the alternator.  Day over.  No FLAPS had one in stock - the Mazda dealer didn't even have one.

There have been a few puzzling things since I got the car running.  I have calibrated the temperature sensor (water) twice and I still don't think it knows which way is up.  I finally let it idle in the garage and forced both FM forward thrust units fans to run for 5 minutes.  The temperature dropped to an indicated 204 and stayed there.  I took that to mean the 190* thermostat was holding me at 190* and set the ECU accordingly.  Hopefully, it is close enough.

The EBC has also been strange.  Travis helped me discover a glitch in the metric/imperial conversion table that caused part of the problem.  The rest of the problem seems to have been assuming the boost control settings from the MSM would translate perfectly.  The boost target for the MSM was around 12 to 13psi to save the motor.  The settings at work in the MSM appear to have simply grabbed the wastegate and pushed it to that level where simple boost creep took over.

The track car is going to run in the 15psi range and the EBC settings weren't able to get me close.  After changing several settings and doing a lot of tedious troubleshooting, I sent my map and a datalog to Travis who promptly set things back to the neck snapping base line.  Sure enough, it works!  Unfortunately, is was doing some fine tuning when the one piece of intake pipe that I didn't bead roll decided to go pop.   :angry9:  Oh well, I was running low on gas anyway.

I'm registered for an event in June at Oregon Raceway Park and plan to do several more days at the Ridge this year.  I will do a private date at Portland and two days at Pacific with the Alfa Romeo Club.  I like them because it is close to home and they don't care about passengers.  I love scaring passengers!

The next set of wrench hours is going to entail installing the oil cooler and working up some good ducting so I don't melt the stupid thing on track.  I'm going to need to look into some more gauges too.  I need to do oil temp and linearize the OEM water temp.  The OEM oil pressure gauge that is giving the wonky numbers should probably go too.  Oh, don't forget to bead roll that last bit of pipe.  15psi is only fun if you finish the session...  :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: apalac01 on May 17, 2012, 02:08:39 PM
Nice video, I have never been to an actual road track but the track you were on in the video is my favorite track on Grand Turismo 1 to current. During your video when you shift it almost sounds like turbo flutter, or surge, correct me if I am wrong but isn't that bad for a turbo? The sound is amazing and I know you have done a number to the turbo side what is it? 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on May 17, 2012, 05:59:46 PM
I changed the BOV signal source since that day and it calmed it down a lot. It's an HKS sequential so it will always sound ricey but seems to be ok now.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: apalac01 on May 18, 2012, 12:44:15 AM
I would'nt call it ricey listening to a turbo spool and the sound of a DV or BOV is my kind of music.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 12, 2012, 05:52:52 AM
A few updates since I last checked in  :lol:.  Where to start???

I put the oil cooler in and installed an oil temperature gauge.  That took a bit of arranging in the instrument cluster.  We all know where the boost gauge goes.  ^-^  I moved the oil pressure gauge to the fuel gauge position and fabricated a pod to house the OEM fuel gauge and placed it in the left eyeball vent that wasn't doing anything anyway.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/NA-Project/photo_51.sized.jpg)

I've made a lot of progress with the tuning.  The idle is mostly worked out with Travis' help and a bit of reading on my part.  It turns out, the Adaptronic has a few simple requirements in order to control the idle air control valve.  The most fundamental is the car must be in neutral or have the clutch switch engaged.  Sounds simple, right?  I didn't bother with a clutch switch because I don't expect to be sitting at many stoplights in this car.  I obediently hooked up the neutral switch when I installed the transmission which has been obediently talking to the 1.6 engine harness that doesn't have anything logical hooked to it.   :buck2:

After some quick wiring to an ECU input, neutral switch was working and the idle control settings started to function.  I goofed around with various settings for a few days and found a seldom discussed setting where the ignition table controls the P and D settings on close loop idle control.  Wow!  I honestly regret not working harder to make this ECU work in the street car.  I think I could have gotten near OEM quality with enough fine tuning.   :(

I also figured out the boost control.  It seems a 14 psi setting that was in place on the MSM didn't really need much boost 'control' - after the initial spool, it was all creep holding the boost!  :shockeyes:  The new car doesn't seem to have that problem but the boost settings I had from the old map weren't even close.  Starting from scratch in open loop wastegate control was the path to success.  I spent an evening last week dialing things in.  One of the early pulls was a bit overestimated.  As the boost gauge swung past 20, I shot a glance at the AFR gauge.  It was steady at 11.5 so I kept my foot in it.  I've never been in anything that accelerate like that. :bannana:  The top of 5th gear and the associated speed literally happened as fast as the top of 3rd gear in the ~200whp MSM.  500 pounds of curb weigh and a hundred extra ponies make that happen.  Holy crap!

I'm not going to run that hot most of the time.  I expect I will settle in around 17psi once I am confident all the supporting systems can handle it.  In talking to Travis, there is a new feature I will be adapting soon however.  It's called 'Push to Pass'.  Essentially, you have your EBC set to sane, sustainable levels normally and when a Corvette or Porsche needs a little bump draft to be convinced he needs to move over, you push a button on the wheel to call on a different setting.  drivingss  Oh yeah, I'm doing that!  :angel1:  Prepare for ludicrous speed!!

I did one additional, painful, obnoxious thing to '90MSM this week.  I installed the passenger seat so I can give rides to squealing, screaming people begging in alternating gasps to go faster and slow down.  Notice the BFH (Blunt Force Helper) in the foreground?  I hate installing seats...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/NA-Project/photo_52.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on June 12, 2012, 11:55:40 AM

I did one additional, painful, obnoxious thing to '90MSM this week.  I installed the passenger seat so I can give rides to squealing, screaming people begging in alternating gasps to go faster and slow down.  Notice the BFH (Blunt Force Helper) in the foreground?  I hate installing seats...


An obnoxious thing; but I wish I was close enough to be one of folks getting some seat time and begging to go faster!

Great progress Mr. Hyde.   ;D  Much racing success.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: corytomo on June 14, 2012, 06:36:55 PM
Mr Hyde, congratulations on a very awesome build. I'm impressed with the speed you actually did the whole change.
I, too, did an 04 MSM swap into a 91 chassis.
Details (well, sorta) are here: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,13528.0.html

I also followed 95MSM's build with great interest, and he did help me out with a few problems.

I did a complete swap, as in, wiring harness for the entire car, ECU, dash. To me, it was easier, but in hindsight, I got stuck with the MSM limitations, but in a lighter chassis.
My car completes solely in SCCA Solo, and has done pretty well - 17 FTDs and 4 PAXs at the local region. I love my car, and it seems you love yours!

If you need any tips/tricks, I can also help - it's been fun trying to get the most out of this motor.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 15, 2012, 05:17:00 AM
Thanks Cory - I've read your thread.  It's always nice when a sad MSM can be transplanted as a unit.  '90MSM did quite well today at ORP.  This video contains my personal best lap 2:03.5 as well as my passing a Lotus, GT-R, Shelby GT350 (new) and a Porsche.  I am going to need a new hub but that's on the consumables list when you drive that this...  :help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvikfT_T7gA&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvikfT_T7gA&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 27, 2012, 09:10:56 AM
Reviving this silly thread so I can get in the mood to make more improvements this winter!  :laugh:

I was having a terrible time with my Supersized Happy Meal and pedal engagement.  I wrestled (literally had to yank this poor transmission through the gears) through several events this summer and finally decided to put the stock clutch back in.  I'm not sure what it was but FM is trading me for a new pressure plate and disk.  The flywheel is fine and I'm getting better at pulling the transmission out.  If only that blasted downpipe was easier to work with!

I fixed my boost control problem.  Unfortunately, it wasn't the EBC.  http://www.turbosmartusa.com/product/dual-stage (http://www.turbosmartusa.com/product/dual-stage)  This thing dialed right in and allowed me to set EXACTLY 15psi on the low setting and 18psi on the high setting.  The buttons on the wheel kick in the extra power and are now affectionately called the 'Porsche Buttons'.  The AFRs looks great and while the engine is a little louder that I wanted, I don't believe there is any detonation - most of the spikes in the log happen as I lift, not at WOT under high load.  I really wanted to do all this from the ECU but getting it dialed in would have eventually earned Mark and I a night in jail.  I set this up myself in about 10 minutes at 'ticket' speeds instead of 'jail/impound' speeds.   :roll:

It's late but I'm back on track Sunday and I have a lot of make up postings to catch up on so stay tuned!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on September 27, 2012, 12:52:32 PM
:
The buttons on the wheel kick in the extra power and are now affectionately called the 'Porsche Buttons'.
:

That name needs more work!

I'm thinking of something like "Viper Boost" after the 1980's Sci-Fi series Battlestar Galactica. When Starbuck and Apollo wanted a quick boost of speed in their Vipers they'd "Hit the turbos", one of the 3 buttons on the joystick.

I'm not sure how turbos work in space; I put it in the same category as space explosions though which should actually be silent - it's just "cooler" to hear the explosions.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on September 27, 2012, 02:41:00 PM
I'm not sure how turbos work in space; I put it in the same category as space explosions though which should actually be silent - it's just "cooler" to hear the explosions.

Sound is a wave, and explosions are big waves, so when the rapidly expanding cloud of gas reached you you would probably hear it if you didn't die (spaceships don't take a whole lot of pressure very well I'm guessing).

For a good, realistic space movie, though, check out Outland.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 27, 2012, 06:15:25 PM
'Porsche Button' is used to chase down the namesake and pass them. The Battlestar reference is really cool but I don't think 18 PSI on a 1.8 is going to scare a Viper in a straight line :(


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on September 28, 2012, 09:12:56 AM
"Viper" was the name of the Colonial fighters which is what I  meant by "Viper Boost" - I'm a Sci-Fi nerd from way back, still remember seeing Star Wars at the drive in as a kid.

The MSM would be great at the drive in on a summer night, pity they don't exist any more.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on September 28, 2012, 04:24:57 PM
Many of the local miata enthusiasts are air force mechanics, and their sector is named "viper"


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 28, 2012, 05:51:39 PM
Oh, I get the sci-fi and military references. Unfortunately, at a race track, 'Viper' is immediately related to the Supercar.  I will consider the change in naming convention though. ;)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 06, 2012, 07:45:27 AM
Well, today marked the beginning of the next chapter.  The first step was very regrettable - I placed the MSM in the driveway under the cover and took the insurance off for the winter.  I need the garage space but parking it outside means it will constantly be filthy and I can't drive it under those conditions.  There are rules about such things...   :police:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/EndLinks/photo_6.sized.jpg)

The last track weekend of the season proved that full power is going to require more cooling.  The setup this past season was a completely unducted FM combo which worked fine at 8-10psi but at 15 to 18 psi it couldn't handle it.  We're going under the knife!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/PB057859.sized.jpg)

Emergency ducting kept me on track for the afternoon sessions although the boost was turned down a bit:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/PB057860.sized.jpg)

I don't know why the Porsche guys spend so much money on Hoosiers when they just end up coiled around my suspension and body components!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/PB057862.sized.jpg)

Hydra may have its 'Nemesis' but the PNW track guys have found their Nemesis!!  The heart of the Porsche Buttons!   drivingss

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/PB057864.sized.jpg)

We're going to add a little grip to go with the zoom zoom!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/PB057865.sized.jpg)

List of winter projects so far:

1.  Air dam and splitter
2.  Full and complete ducting of the heat exchangers
3.  Reclock the turbo and clean up the charge pipes
4.  Gut the barn door headlights and put headlights in the turn signal slots
5.  Install mini scoop in OEM hood
6.  Clean up coolant reroute with some hard pipe
7.  Rethink fuel system and add AN fitting with braided lines
8.  Louvers and hood pins to complete OEM hood re-do
9.  Configure VICS solenoid to run off high current output vacated by failed EBC
10.  ATI or Supermiata crank damper
11.  Rear wing to balance out the front

In addition to the hardware, I'm going to get back to the dyno.  The ignition map that yielded 247whp in the black car 4 years ago when I had no idea how things worked looks a little scary to me now.  I need to get this fixed or my exhaust valves won't last the season at full power.  One of the local guys found a new tuner in Oregon that did a fantastic job on his FMII so I'm going to let him try the Adaptronic.  I've been doing some math on the turbo and I think I can get to 290whp on the IHI with the 15g wheel at 18psi.  300 would be possible but not advised for track duty.   :angel1:

I had originally thought about pulling the NA6 engine harness completely out but on second thought, I decided I may leave it in place.  Doing so give me lots of options down the road if I want to get serious about learning to drive and racing the chassis as a spec.  Stay tuned for this winter's installments of '90MSM digest!   :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on November 06, 2012, 08:13:16 AM
I thought our tiny turbos ran out of puff at 15psi, going beyond that yielded very little?

What about doing a BNR upgrade over winter?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on November 06, 2012, 01:48:50 PM
Storing the MSM for the winter IS sad.   :'(
Fortunately, central Texas weather allows me to exercise mine year-round.

Your winter projects should yield a faster and more stable car.
I'm jealous!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 06, 2012, 05:22:13 PM
I thought our tiny turbos ran out of puff at 15psi, going beyond that yielded very little?

What about doing a BNR upgrade over winter?

This one has the 15g Mitsubishi wheel upgrade from turbochargers.com. There is a lot of math involved and I'm struggling through it :P.

I have a spare turbo and I like the BNR but looking at these compressor maps compared to the new Borg Warner makes my checking account cry.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on November 06, 2012, 11:05:43 PM
:
I have a spare turbo and I like the BNR but looking at these compressor maps compared to the new Borg Warner makes my checking account cry.

Tell me about it!

I've finally bitten the bullet and decided to upgrade my turbo. A FM or BEGi solution is the easy route but I knew that if I bought a GT2560R I'd always regret not getting the EFR6258 instead.

S&H to Australia via FedEx cost US$372.25, then the Australian tax office whacked on A$270 import duty - believe it or not, this is STILL about A$200 cheaper than what I could buy it for locally here IF I could even get one. Thankfully the Aussie dollar is worth more than the US$ (has been for quite a while now), otherwise I never would have bought it. These additional costs, plus accumulating all the required fittings, have put a one month delay in my installation schedule :(


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on November 07, 2012, 12:21:19 AM
What are you doing for a manifold and DP?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on November 07, 2012, 02:42:57 AM
^
I'm getting them fabbed locally, it's really the only way that I know I'll be able to keep my P/S and A/C and NOT have to cut the shelf too much (the EFR6258 is longer than the GT2560R so needs to be located further forward than on the FM or BEGi log manifolds to allow the downpipe to fit - a 3" 90 degree bend requires a lot of room).

I was going to wait for Savington's kit but that's taking forever, there's no information on whether or not it accomodates the PS and A/C and initially he was only going to sell it as a complete kit which I don't need since I already have an ECU and injectors I'm happy with.

S&H would have been a killer too - for the turbo that was unavoidable but not for the manifold and exhaust.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on November 07, 2012, 03:10:48 AM
do you have a built motor?  Does the bw erd6258 spool so quickly it'd make enough torque to bend rods early in the rpm range?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on November 07, 2012, 03:40:58 AM
do you have a built motor?  Does the bw erd6258 spool so quickly it'd make enough torque to bend rods early in the rpm range?

Not yet, that's budgeted early next year so will have to be very disciplined until then.

PS: Sorry for the thread hijack mr_hyde.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 07, 2012, 05:40:30 AM
I welcome a little thread jack!  Mother Of God - look at the difference in the compressor maps between my upgraded IHI and the EFR:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/td04_15g_raw.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/6562842_G.sized.jpg)

This is definitely the cool new thing.  I want one but last time I tried to sell one of my children they wanted me to pay so it looks like I'll be in the MSM turbo family on '90MSM for another year or two.  Cheers!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on November 07, 2012, 06:00:33 PM
This is definitely the cool new thing.  I want one but last time I tried to sell one of my children they wanted me to pay so it looks like I'll be in the MSM turbo family on '90MSM for another year or two.  Cheers!

How much are you asking?  I could use an indentured cook/housekeeper until I can find another future ex-Mrs. b lol


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on November 07, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
How much are you asking?  I could use an indentured cook/housekeeper until I can find another future ex-Mrs. b lol

Hey!  That 'future ex' line is mine!  :knuppel2:

Trust me, is they had ANY value cooking or cleaning, I wouldn't have them on the market.  Think of how much more time I could spend working on cars if I didn't need to keep the house up too...   :'(


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on December 20, 2012, 03:31:35 PM
Any updates Mr_Hyde?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on December 21, 2012, 01:15:36 AM
On jackstands with the front panels removed.  I've been too busy to do much in the last month with work and the T25.  I have the material to do the splitter and air dam and have already reclocked the turbo so new pipes to/from the turbo are in the works too.  I'd like to be done by March 1st so I can do a shake down or two before MRLS at the end of April.  I need to find some dyno time too but obviously need to finish the intake work first.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on December 21, 2012, 01:36:15 AM
I'm curious as to how/where you are going to attach the splitter.  I recently fabbed up a plywood test splitter with some scrap lying around the garage and did some preliminary looking on where to attach it.  I didn't have the energy to removed the undertray, so I didn't get too far. 

Take lots of pictures so I don't have to re-create the wheel.   :)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on December 21, 2012, 09:17:17 AM
It won't be a direct translation since mine will be on an NA but I plan for the normal mushroom shape attaching directly to the subframe in the rear and fabricating some brackets at the front.  Needs to be strong enough to stay on at 140mph without ripping the front of the car off if you go 4x4ing off track.  I'll be sure to share what I end up doing.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on December 21, 2012, 09:52:56 AM
Take a gander at charlie_91's splitter on his NA for some ideas:

http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40881&start=870 (http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40881&start=870)

This is a brilliant little car, looks MUCH better on the track than in pictures - it should be too given that he's spent a fortune on it. He's done a few track days now with his current splitter and it's holding up OK; he can even stand on it.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on December 21, 2012, 10:11:22 AM
I know how much club ricer is loathed here, but this is probably worth a look.

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/85-junior-sponsors/56430-full-aero-kits.html


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on December 21, 2012, 11:17:37 AM
I know how much club ricer is loathed here, but this is probably worth a look.

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/85-junior-sponsors/56430-full-aero-kits.html

charlie_91 uses this guy's mounting brackets.

I'm on CR too because there are a few threads worth visiting - 95% just makes me shake my head though (especially guys who lower their cars to the point of being un-drivable).


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on December 21, 2012, 01:13:30 PM
There are also a lot of pics on turbomiata.  I've got some ideas, but really need to look closer at some mounting points.  As Hyde said, I want the mounting points to be strong, but not too strong.  I want the brackets to fail first for those off road excursions. 

I think I can find sub-frame mounts in the rear and use some turnbuckles in the front.  However,  I am still not really sure where to mount brackets on the sides-somewhere in front of the tires.  I think there needs to be some support here, especially since I may incorporate some sort of way to block the tires. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 30, 2013, 08:15:15 AM
I've been back in the garage this week and it feels good.  :mrgreen: Sometimes you just need to pull on the winter coveralls, put on a good radio station and... start.  The first part of this winter's project is the splitter/air dam.

I spent a long time researching what others have done and looking at the front of my hybrid to see how things should work.  The splitter needs to go from the midpoint of the front wheels, hugging the subframe, and ending in front of the airdam while maintaining approximate level with the ground.  The air dam goes from wheel to wheel perpendicular to the ground at the front and flaring out to cover as much of the front wheels as practical.  The ducting needs to seal the mouth of the air dam to the heat exchangers completely forcing ALL air that comes into the nose through the heat exchangers.

So we have 3 components:  Ducting, Splitter and Air Dam.  These all need to work together and fit together but must remain separate so various parts can be removed without taking the whole thing down.  In the event of an... excursion... off the track, various bits need to be removable and replaceable without destroying any of the heat exchangers.

Early on, I decided the basic duct work needed to become part of the heat exchangers.  The splitter and air dam would need to be removable without disturbing the intricate tape work.  The ducting began.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137866.sized.jpg)

I took some aluminum flashing and borrowed '95MSMs sheet metal brake to fold some angles in it so it would slip over the top of the radiator, behind and around the upper support and attach to the bumper support.  This would not be possible with an OEM hood latch but I'm putting latches in.  This sheet essentially takes care of the top of the ducting.

Below is the view from underneath.  Notice how following the bumper support causes it to bow out thereby increasing the volume?

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137867.sized.jpg)

I have the FM oil cooler mounted to the steering rack.  Here is an early mockup of a box supplying air through a duct-box:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137868.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137869.sized.jpg)

I used the same thin gauge aluminum to seal up to the top corners and cut around the intercooler inlet/outlet.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137870.sized.jpg)

(looking up from the outside of the ducting box)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137871.sized.jpg)

The splitter in basic position (rough cut and oversized for now).  The sides of the duct are attached to the heat exchangers and not to the splitter.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1147872.sized.jpg)

The airdam is in basic place.  I will trim it at the top after everything else is set.  I used some aluminum bar formed to the backside of the bumper - drilled and tapped and held in place by flush screws.  That gave structure for me to drill/tap 1/4-20 stainless button heads (hex) that attaches the air dam to the nose.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1287873.sized.jpg)

It also attached to aluminum angle tabs mounted to the splitter.  This gives good strength but also allows me to take the whole thing off in just a few minutes.  Here is the opening cut - ~22" wide by 9.5" tall:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1297874.sized.jpg)

The shiny floor slightly bowing in the picture has a gap between it and the splitter to allow for some flex.  You generally want the opening to be 1/3 of the area of the heat exchanger.  The math gets sticky here, but there is a 1" gap on the floor to serve the oil cooler and brake ducts that around mounted to the side of that box.  2" on top of that, is a fin that serves the intercooler which is sealed on 3 sides to the radiator.  The remaining ~6+ inches serves the radiator up into the plenum formed by the top flashing.

Here is a better view of the fins.  They are crafted from round duct so the natural curve rounds up.  The lower one is sealed to the bottom of the intercooler and the upper one is sealed to the top of the intercooler essentially separating the 3 heat exchangers (plus brake ducts) in the same space.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1297875.sized.jpg)

There is a bit more to do obviously, but the goal is to be able to remove the entire nose from the ducting while only peeling/cutting one small section of tape.  The splitter should drop out form under the whole thing by unbolting the lower part of the air dam and loosening the allthread (soon to be aluminum) and pair of m6 x 1.25 bolts tapped into the subframe at the rear.

I'm sure I missed some details but this is the basic design.  Once everything is perfectly fit and trimmed, I'm going to make a 2nd air dam and splitter to keep in the truck.  Everything will be cut, shaped and drilled ahead of time so a crunched or torn part can be quickly replaced.  Back to work tomorrow night!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on January 30, 2013, 01:34:34 PM
Looking good.   :mrgreen:  This project sure does look easier when you aren't concerned about hacking up the front bumper. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on January 30, 2013, 02:31:32 PM
Once again I'm in awe of your engineering and fabrication skills. 
Looks great thus far ... the final result should be stellar.
Track time will lead to some tweaking until it's perfect for your use.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.   thumup


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on January 30, 2013, 11:11:26 PM
- lovin' this build, makes me want to build a dedicated track car too :(

I assume that you'll be adding washers to the bolts holding the front air dam to prevent them pulling through the air dam since those heads don't look to be substantial enough?

Another alternative, not as aesthetic but much more secure, would be to to shape a strip of aluminium to the front bumper and bolt through that to distribute the air dam's mount pressure over a wider area (effective a "front" backplate). You could paint it black or red if it looks too "daggy".


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on January 31, 2013, 01:41:00 AM
The cap screws have pretty good heads on them and the load against them will shear down so they might be OK.  The key for me is for them to stay where they are a ~140mph but break away easily on contact with something more solid than the air she breathes...  ::)

I'm thrilled with the project - so I don't have to make compromises but also so I don't need to beat the crap out of the poor MSM anymore.  It must have been terrified every time it saw me loading fuel and tires into the trailer and felt the hitch go on.  '90MSM actually seems to smile when I'm loading.  Much better feeling all around!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 01, 2013, 09:54:42 AM
I finished up a bit with the front tonight and got sidetracked on the intake.  After confirming my ability to securely fasten the blow off valve nipple (and by extension, the bung for the ITA), I took the rest of the FM intake out of the loop.  This will have no diameter transitions like the OEM intake must have, no bends sharper than 90* and the sum of the entire bends from the intercooler to the throttle body are around 150* which is around 300* less than what I cobbled together last year.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2017877.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2017878.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2017879.sized.jpg)

The headlights have been gutted and I will be putting in hella fog lights in the turn signal lenses for the one night event I do.  My days of midnight street tuning are behind me since the air dam, splitter, wing and large vinyl car numbers will make it a bit too interesting to LEO to drive on the street in any spirited way.  All good things must pass but I am proud to have not ended up in jail while tuning the boost control all those nights...  :buck2:

Some kid was nice enough to figure out how to make a cheap bead roller and google was nice enough to help me locate it.

http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/350500-Vise-grip-tube-bead-roller-tool-for-only-7-83 (http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/350500-Vise-grip-tube-bead-roller-tool-for-only-7-83)

Please excuse the welds, I'm out of shielding gas...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2017882.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2017881.sized.jpg)

Test piece:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2017883.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: dvdreith on February 08, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
That is pretty slick!!!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Mobius on February 10, 2013, 09:02:19 AM
You will have the mighty forearms of popeye when the intake tubing is done!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 10, 2013, 04:32:59 PM
You will have the mighty forearms of popeye when the intake tubing is done!

No kidding!  I may borrow one of the HF rollers to do most of the work.  They take a lot of additional bracing to keep them from wandering which is why I returned the first one but it will suck doing this by hand.   :angry9:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 13, 2013, 09:15:07 AM
A little progress tonight.  Here's the rough cut:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2120025.sized.jpg)

Got the piping to line up with the Jpipe.  Ordered 1.5" mandrel piece and will have a shop fabricate the transition from 1.5 to 2.5.  It's a victory that the plumbing lines up.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2120027.sized.jpg)

Took the 5/16" all-thread that weighed a ton and replaced it with aluminum rod I threaded.  Literally saved 2 pounds just from that steel.   :shockeyes:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2120031.sized.jpg)

M8 1.25 to keep in the spirit of things.  I can always find a 14mm in the toolbox.  1/2" is harder...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130032.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130033.sized.jpg)

I'm starting to work on the hood.  Had to make sure the throttle body pipe fits before I start cutting.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2120028.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130034.sized.jpg)

Oh yeah - one last thing.  Robbed a bit of the tax return to make sure the back doesn't race the front with this aero in place.  I'm going with the NASCAR Car of Tomorrow (COT) wing as discussed in the 'New Wing to Test' thread on MT.  I would link, but the site is down.  Stay tuned for more details on that little gem!   :mrgreen:



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: BigDmiata on February 13, 2013, 11:45:39 AM
Are you going with the FM (Keith) designed mount?  They're doing a group buy and I don't see you on the list. They only need one more person to make the run happen :)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: VolCrew on February 13, 2013, 12:42:42 PM
I saw a few COT wings on ebay, too.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on February 13, 2013, 05:14:36 PM
Hyde-your link may answer this question, but why the COT wing over the Supermiata wing from 949?  Cost?

How far is your splitter going to stick out in front of the front air dam and how did you come up with this distance?  WAG?   :D

Are you going to be able to adjust the distance it sticks out to assist with balance or are you going to adjust the wing?

Looking good.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 13, 2013, 06:59:29 PM
Here's the discussion on the COT wing:  http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/new-wing-test-62253/ (http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/new-wing-test-62253/)

Here are images of Keith's car and an NB version.  I'm on the GB so they must not have put my name on yet.  Keith said if they got close, FM would probably buy the remaining pieces and retail them.
(http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/66918-new-wing-test-29-77670b-jpg?dateline=1360277533)

(http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/66919-new-wing-test-29-77670a-jpg?dateline=1360277533)

The splitter sicks out just shy of 3".  I was aiming for closer to 4" but the jigsaw blade wandered under the race I set so the field engineering changed.   :P  It will be fixed in the same position (until a new one is made).  The general process is to set the front where it is and adjust the wing.

The Supermiata wing is a 3D wing and the cool kids have been evolving to 2D wings over the last 2 years.  Crusher has been using a 2D wing for 2 seasons with great results.  The COT wings were around $3,000 new as a spec piece for the NASCAR teams so less than 1/10th of that is a deal.  There is some discussion around the shape of the airfoil since these were engineered to run at ~200mph which is 4x the force as 100mph.  The consensus is it still works fine in the miata application and one fast track guy reported dropping over a second per lap vs. the APR (Supermiata) wing.

Millsj might consider this for his car.  Keith installed rivnuts in the gutter of his car so the wing can be removed in a few minutes with no visible effect.  If you do this, you are going to also want to fashion a removable splitter or you are going to meet Mr. Understeer at every turn.   :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on February 13, 2013, 08:14:01 PM
I may have to give this some consideration in the next 16 days.  My only hesitation is having to drill 10 holes in the gutter.  I know it isn't visible, but it just hurts to think about drilling holes in that location.   :o 

The wing would have to be easily removable or I would meet Mr. Ricer at every light in town.   ;D


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on February 13, 2013, 09:33:51 PM
I may have to give this some consideration in the next 16 days.  My only hesitation is having to drill 10 holes in the gutter.  I know it isn't visible, but it just hurts to think about drilling holes in that location.   :o 

The wing would have to be easily removable or I would meet Mr. Ricer at every light in town.   ;D

you could probably find stoppers to plug the holes while the wing's removed


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on February 13, 2013, 10:06:17 PM
Or just use the mounting hardware so you don't loose it between track days. :lol:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 13, 2013, 11:33:17 PM
Stainless fasteners would be pretty slick and it would be completely removable to keep the streetable profile.  Nobody (no grown-up anyway  ;D ) likes sitting at a stoplight next to a kid in a riced out Honda blipping the throttle on his straight pipe fart can.

As for drilling - man up!  I spent the morning with a drill and some emotionally tense holes. (acknowledgement that a '90 track car hood is not the same as the unibody tub of an MSM).  The barn door headlights needed to move to make room for intake plumbing plus I'm saving around 20 pounds above the roll center in front of the front axle.  I had to fab some crude attachment points to mount the lids to rest of the hood.  Here we are so far - stay tuned for the rest of the pictures when I finish later.   :mrgreen:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130035.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130036.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130037.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130038.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130040.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on February 14, 2013, 02:38:08 AM
Pot-rivets on a track car work and look great!

Not so great on a DD car though :(

I can't wait until the day I have a track-only car - no compromises!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 14, 2013, 05:11:40 AM
I can't wait until the day I have a track-only car - no compromises!

I am very glad to be tinkering constantly on this and leaving the poor MSM alone except for sunny day driving and maintenance.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 15, 2013, 01:17:45 PM
Parental Advisory:  A Dremel died in the line of duty tonight.   :'(

Here are a few things you probably won't want to try on your MSM hood.  First up is the mini scoop.  This is the intake scoop off a Mini Cooper S.  It has a very good contour and flipped backwards, does a fine job extracting through an OEM hood.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2140041.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2140042.sized.jpg)

A belt sander is used to tame the profile in some areas to help it sit down inside the hood.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2140043.sized.jpg)

It went to the paint shop after this picture was taken.  It will get the pop rivet treatment the headlight lids got.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2140044.sized.jpg)

Speaking of headlight lids!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2140045.sized.jpg)

I had to sand their profile down too so they would sit in place with the plane of the hood.  A small tab of 1/16" bar stock was inserted behind each rivet to shim the lids and support the so the rivet gun wouldn't crush them.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2140047.sized.jpg)

For my last trick of the evening, I installed Aerocatch latches since the ducting precludes the OEM hood latch.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2150048.sized.jpg)

The dremel gave it up somewhere in the middle of the last latch opening.  Everything else in the tool bag is too obtuse for the work so I had to finish with a die grinder.  Being between future ex wives, I can run air tools in the attached garage at 4am for extended periods of time.  If the teenagers complain, I'll cheerfully refund the rent money... oh wait!  They live here for free...   ::)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2150049.sized.jpg)

I'll clean the underside of the holes a bit when I get dremel v2.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2150050.sized.jpg)

Time for bed - I have to work in the morning...  :buck2:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on February 15, 2013, 03:23:05 PM
Lookin' great!  Keep the pics of the progress coming.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on February 15, 2013, 03:54:38 PM
The Mini Hood Scoop re-purposing is brilliant! I stared long and hard at the neighbors hood scoop on his Legacy wagon when considering dedicated oil cooler ducting for the MSM lower bumper.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 01, 2013, 08:16:50 AM
I realized I didn't post the finished hood.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0941_copy.sized.jpg)

One year ago tonight, '90MSM started for the first time.  I thought it was fitting to focus a bit and get her running again.  I've been working on the intake off and on for a few weeks and it is finished for the most part:

The transition from 1.5" to 2.5" is actually pretty nice.  I didn't take any pictures but I will next time it is off.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0935_copy.sized.jpg)

Obviously several things to tidy up
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0936_copy.sized.jpg)

Notice the cute little bung for the wastegate signal?  Courtesy of '95MSM and his lathe!  :mrgreen:  Yes, there is plenty of clearance for the sway.  The 2nd scrap of coupler is to protect the pipe where it may contact the radiator frame.  I'll clearance the area later.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0937_copy.sized.jpg)

Here's the cold side.  With this 90, we're getting close to 270* of bends in the entire system.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0938_copy.sized.jpg)

A bit of clearance work to do on this hole - or shorten the inlet pipe just a bit.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0939_copy.sized.jpg)

Intake air temperature sensor bung also courtesy of '95MSM.  I'm sure I could have gotten the hole just as good in my vise with a drill motor.   :hack:   ...or not.   :laugh:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0940_copy.sized.jpg)

All of the tubing besides the j pipe is made from a cheap fleabay set of universal aluminum intercooler piping.  I think I paid $75 for it including the couplers.  I got two 90s, two 45s, 2 30s and two straight pieces.  I used everything except the straight pieces so I'm very happy overall.  The mandrel bends are very nice and the stuff is light.  My hand bead roller mentioned a few posts earlier works GREAT if you heat the pipe up a bit with a propane torch.  The softened aluminum is very easy to roll. 

The J pipe is steel and a harvested flange with the OEM crush bend discarded.  I used a 1.5" 30* stainless mandrel bend to get the orientation right out of the turbo and then had a friend at the muffler shop weld a 2.25" mild steel pinched down at one end and flared to 2.5" at the other to get to the ID of the aluminum.  I filled the transition with aluminum rod and ground it down to a nice taper internally.  I paid Eric $20 for his time and then spent ~$25 for the aluminum  :laugh:  Oh well!

The turbo inlet is a 1.75" to 2.5" 30* silicone and a piece of tube oriented to put the oversized filter where the driver's headlight had been.  I will box it in with more aluminum sheets and duct to fresh air later in the month.  Besides necking down from 2.5 to 1.75, that's about the straightest shot you can get into our turbos - just a bit nicer than the double 90s we have in the OEM configuration that is limited by the AC compressor.

I will be wrapping the air box, the section of pipe into the turbo and the throttle body inlet pipe that comes within ~.5" of the upper radiator hose with aluminum reflective insulation to keep the chilly air chilly.  The part coming out of the J pipe into the intercooler will be hanging out in the wind to cool.

Mist started right up after a few 30 second cranking periods with the injectors off to get the oil moving again.  I idled up to temperature and then shut down since there isn't a working cooling fan at the moment.  I need to remedy that and then tidy up a bunch of little things but overall, I'll be ready for the dyno a week from Monday.  I hope to get north of 250whp at 15psi and would like the Porsche buttons to tickle 280 at 17 or 18psi.  Fingers crossed!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on March 01, 2013, 03:20:04 PM
Do you have a picture of the underneath side of the hood?  Did you cut the bracing to install the scoop?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 02, 2013, 02:04:27 AM
Yes, some of the bracing went away. I'll get some pictures when I get a chance. There is still a lot of structure to the sides where the hood pins take the majority of the force.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 02, 2013, 08:18:10 AM
Here are a few underhood pictures:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0943.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0942.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/IMG_0944.sized.jpg)

There is still a lot of structure there.  The cuts were with a combination of dremel wheels and an air nibbler.  The aluminum 'L' for the NA headlights was a jigsaw.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on March 02, 2013, 10:20:29 AM
What do you use for headlights?


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Mobius on March 08, 2013, 07:53:56 PM
Is racecar ...

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 09, 2013, 08:04:41 AM
I'll be using rectangular fog lights in the turn signal inlets. I haven't completed that yet but I do enjoy the intake routing!  I had the car on the road yesterday and everything shook down pretty well. I don't know how well the 3" high splitter will like hopping curbs so I may need to address that. Getting onto the trailer will be an exercise in small angles too!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 20, 2013, 07:12:55 AM
Lots of progress in the last few weeks.  Most notably, I went to get a tune up on the old tune I did in December 2009.  Wow, what a mess.   :shockeyes:  The car made 178whp as I pulled it in at around 12psi.  The stock ECU probably would have been better.   >:(  Kris from KO Racing in Portland got me to 228whp without touching the boost control - yes, exactly 50whp from better fuel and timing.  Once we got things running happy at that level, we started to turn the fun knob and quickly found out that the stock clutch wasn't going to make it.  The last run got ~240 at 15psi with a big fish hook in the curve where the clutch grabbed (RPMs increasing as wheel speed decreased and them WHAM!  Traction again.).  We agreed there was nothing to be gained from going further beside glazing my flywheel or pressure plate so we hung it up.  If anyone in the PNW needs a tune, I HIGHLY recommend Kris.  I'll probably go into more details in the review section.

Last weekend, I put a happy meal in to replace the MSM clutch and spent Monday running errands all day using hand signals in lieu of front turns.  I fully expected to get pulled over several times but I was ready with my 'breaking in the clutch' story and my insurance agent on speed dial to confirm I did, in fact, have coverage on the car (for 6 hours  :angel1: ).  After a few hours of stop-n-go which was trouble free with a proper tune, I stepped on the loud pedal and found something else was now slipping - the rear wheels in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.   :lol:

The black car with this turbo, exhaust, injectors, ECU and approximate tune NEVER felt like this.  Holy crap!  This is going to be fun.  I decided I needed a little zoom zoom to make sure the car looked as fast as it feels.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3190054.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3190057.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3190058.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3190054.sized.jpg)

Still more overall work to do but we're getting really close to being ready for a shakedown in early/mid April then the long haul to Laguna Seca for the miatapalooza crazyness at the end of the month.   drivingss


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: CharlesE on March 20, 2013, 09:56:21 AM
Wow!! That is looking goo thumupd.  Suggestion:  Take a lot of pro quality photos before you track the car.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: MRoberts on March 20, 2013, 11:38:20 AM
Awesome build!!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on March 20, 2013, 12:02:04 PM
Looking great!!!   :mrgreen:

This thread is not helping with thoughts of getting a SM and doing an MSM drivetrain transplant.   :help:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on March 20, 2013, 02:24:01 PM
OUTSTANDING!  Yes, I'm shouting.
You've made several substantive modifications since last year that should greatly improve your speed and reliability.
The car looks terrific and should seriously smoke the unsuspecting competition.
I can hardly wait to see your track videos from the upcoming season.   drivingss

If only you were closer to central Texas, I'd drive a day just to watch you run.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 20, 2013, 04:25:17 PM
A year ago, this was just slapped together crudely to get on track. While far from 'finished', it is much more polished now. The wing is the last big component then everything else is just little stuff.

Before the Dyno, I finally wired up the VICS controller and did see the few HP bump crossing at 5,200 RPMs.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: VolCrew on March 20, 2013, 10:40:22 PM
Wow!  It has really come along and is looking great!



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: newold_m on March 23, 2013, 01:17:52 AM
That's one bad ass Miata..!


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Mobius on March 23, 2013, 01:18:57 AM
Looks great.   Needs moar wing!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 24, 2013, 03:27:30 PM
Looks great.   Needs moar wing!

Mobius,

I have a plan for that.   :D  I take it your foglight pigtail arrived safely?


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Mobius on March 24, 2013, 11:29:28 PM
Yep, thank you!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: GreasyWheeler on March 25, 2013, 10:55:17 PM
As already stated, a masterful race car build.  Hyde, you've done it up right!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on March 26, 2013, 07:27:49 AM
Got a little more fun in the mail today.  The mounts for the NASCAR COT wing arrived.  :mrgreen:  I don't know how much it has been discussed here but there is a big thread on the wing on MT:  http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/new-wing-test-62253/ (http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/new-wing-test-62253/)

Essentially, the left turn guys had these wings built for the new car a few years ago but only ran them for a season or two when they realized the wings provided lift when the car suddenly went backwards at 200mph (which they do often...).  NASCAR when back to spoilers and the wings got picked up by the surplus guys and made it on ebay where we're getting a $3,500 carbon fiber wing that has been race used for 1/10th of that.  Keith was nice enough to make a small run of mounts.  Here's what it looks like mounted for battle:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3250065.sized.jpg)

They mount in the sides of the gutters.  Clearance is tight and the metal there is at least 3 layers so it would be an excellent candidate to drill and tap.  I used nuts on the 4 initial fasteners but I'm still looking at options for the final mounting.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3250061.sized.jpg)

It is very tight and rubs on the trunk lid.  Keith made these as race parts with some fitment required.  If this were a street car or a dual purpose car where these were removed between track weekends, I would want to take some care to protect the paint and perhaps modify an angle or two by a degree or so.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P3250064.sized.jpg)

A few early adopters have said this provides better downforce with less drag than the 3D APR wing that had been standard for the last 3 or 4 years.  I'm looking forward to some pretty epic grip and when coupled with the splitter and air dam, the car is ready to put some serious lateral Gs.  All I need to do is remember to avoid going backwards at 200mph...   :shockeyes:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on March 26, 2013, 07:41:43 AM
Are those the original winglets? I've heard those were designed only for left turns if they are.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: HELLIONMX5 on March 26, 2013, 01:47:15 PM
Just went through this whoke build.  Hyde, so in awe. This does remind me of how something like this is waaaaaaaaaay waaay out of my "tuning, fabricating, and mech" skills. I'm scared to change spark plugs cause I would think, with, my luck I would cross thread them. Look forward to more videos. Your driving is my version of need for speed, minus the crashing. Its a vid game so I don't care. But just as aggressive. Might have to retuned a short clip.  Lol. There were so many questions I wanted to ask,  but going through 18  pages kind of makes you forget everything.  I would have to get a pad and pen to go through this thread.  I wish you were closer. Going to sub to your channel now.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on March 26, 2013, 04:25:43 PM
Sweet! Now you really got me thinking about my fold-up splitter so I can run one of those too.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 04, 2013, 06:08:34 AM
Balance has been restored to the world.  The MSM got a bath and I cleared out enough of the garage to put her home.  Up on jackstands for an oil change and to fix a pesky exhaust leak - much better now!   :mrgreen:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4030069.sized.jpg)

'90MSM got some fog light mounted in the turn signal space.  I fabbed up an aluminum bracket to hold them in place plus the socket for the turn signal itself.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4030070.sized.jpg)

The clear cover is just some 1/4 polycarbonate.  I was overthinking the shape of it by hoping to match the OEM shape of the nose but with the air dam right below it, there will be zero aero implications with the cover being slightly recessed.  The light is good enough to drive at night but there aren't high beams and I won't be doing any overnight enduros with this setup.  It's really just good enough for an emergency which is really what I was after.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on April 04, 2013, 10:39:12 AM
  I just back-checked the thread a few pages and I don't think we ever got a shot of the completed front splitter. I'll probably be up to see it in person next week, but most of the mod-junkies on here don't have that luxury.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: HELLIONMX5 on April 04, 2013, 01:18:57 PM
Im am  not a mod junky drivingss!

Ok I am in denial. .. I kno I am


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 04, 2013, 07:29:29 PM
I just back-checked the thread a few pages and I don't think we ever got a shot of the completed front splitter. I'll probably be up to see it in person next week, but most of the mod-junkies on here don't have that luxury.

I'm out of town Sunday for the whole week.  Want to come up Saturday and dig through the box of wires?  If not, we're looking at the following week (9 days later).  Let me know!   :mrgreen:

The splitter is pretty basic.  Here's an early picture that shows the wood going under the heat exchanger air box:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1297874.sized.jpg)

The box looks like this:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1317876.sized.jpg)

It is held up by the air dam itself, two M6 1.0 bolts tapped into the subframe at the rear and two aluminum rods threaded for M8 1.25 that are just forward of the radiator outside the airbox:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2120031.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P2130033.sized.jpg)

Here's the current state:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4040076.sized.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on April 04, 2013, 08:02:04 PM
I think the rectangular splitter in the first picture would give you more downforce than the final product.   ;D  ;D

Looking great!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on April 05, 2013, 06:10:48 AM
That looks Sweet!
 I have a show to do Saturday, Load-in, sound check, and twiddling my thumbs 'til show time consumes pretty much my whole day so we'll touch base when you get back.
Doing my shakedown with Kitch on the 17th at Pacific and 22nd at the Ridge. Do you have anything scheduled before Laguna?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 06, 2013, 06:20:12 AM
Doing my shakedown with Kitch on the 17th at Pacific and 22nd at the Ridge. Do you have anything scheduled before Laguna?

I'm going to do Turn 2 at The Ridge on 4/12 unless my flight in late on 4/11 is delayed or it pours down rain.  If 4/12 doesn't work, I'll run with Kitch and you on the 17th.  I need to make sure all of these components do what they are supposed to @ >130mph before I drive all the way to Laguna.  I have last year's brakes and tires on with new pads waiting in the box but I think I have one more day on the current pads.  In the immortal words of Commander Cody:  Brakes are good, tires fair...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: MSMzer04 on April 07, 2013, 07:27:11 AM
Wow your car gets sexier with every update! The only thing I wish you would give us is some high resolution shots so I can use as a desktop background :)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 07, 2013, 09:05:30 PM
GotBlueMilk will be at Laguna and I'll buy the photo package.  Much more interesting than my garage!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 13, 2013, 09:32:16 AM
Well, good news/bad news:  I went to the track today and popped an intercooler pipe off as I accelerated to the green flag.  Came in and tightened everything down.  Next session, blew the intercooler elbow on the first hard boost.   >:(

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/EndLinks/photo.sized.jpg)

A trip to Napa to buy a 2.5" radiator hose only yielded a 2.25" hose.  Yes, gentlemen - size matters but in this case I was able to stretch the SOB to fit.  I made the third session a lap or two late but this time the intake held together.  Oh. My. God.  This car is crazy fast now.  On the first session (not counting the two previously failed attempts), I cut almost 6 full seconds off my best time from last year.  Today was in the 40s.  Last September, it was a nice 70 degree day with sun.  The winning time was 1:53:89 which was really the only clean lap I got in the fastest group.  For reference, the laps '95MSM took in the passenger seat were in the 2:04 range.  On the right day and after I get a little more comfortable with the power and grip, I think I can break 1:50 which is getting down with well driven GT3s.  I'm giddy with excitement on how well this car is coming together.   :bannana:

I spliced this video together from the gopro combined with the data from Harry's Laptimer.  I can't figure out how to overlay an entire session so I had to cut it into laps and then edit the string together which is why it is choppy at the start/finish line between laps.  http://youtu.be/AZhBtFMBGeg (http://youtu.be/AZhBtFMBGeg)  It may take a while to upload and compile so check back if there is an error.

Here's the same track after lunch when the rain came.  Not the best idea to run on NT-01s that have no tread.  It felt like I was driving an unlimited hydroplane with no rudder.   :shockeyes: :shockeyes:  http://youtu.be/QQm8BokOvm0 (http://youtu.be/QQm8BokOvm0)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 13, 2013, 06:09:25 PM
I updated the link in the previous post.  YouTube wouldn't take the video at full resolution... :(


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on April 13, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
Looks like great fun.
Passing expensive German iron like they're barely moving ... Priceless!   drivingss:laugh: :laugh:
I love it and I'm JEALOUS.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: broken on April 13, 2013, 07:00:59 PM
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/EndLinks/photo.sized.jpg)

gorilla tape  :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Zoli007 on April 13, 2013, 08:07:28 PM
I have to ask how the horrifically ugly front section is made?  I know it works because I've seen it on many other cars as well as 949's racing cars.  What is the idea behind what looks very aerodynamically inefficient vs the stock bumper?   Also, your radiator/intercooler box. It looks like you have a duct underneath which I assume feeds the radiator and then the upper duct feeding the intercooler?

I am all for function over form on a race/track car, just looking for more info on why/how this works better.  Also, what material size (thickness) is your splitter? 

Looks like the car is pretty quick!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on April 13, 2013, 09:36:03 PM
So how much boost did it take to split that hose? Or do you think it's more of an isolated faulty silicone part issue? Sounds like it shook down pretty well, hose aside...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 13, 2013, 10:05:57 PM
It was about 16psi to pop the balloon. The airdam is a pretty well established mod. The splitter 1/4 plywood and the ducting sends clean air into each heat exchanger directly. The car is a bit scary now - more so that I didn't find the limit a single time yesterday.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Zoli007 on April 14, 2013, 12:43:44 AM
Sounds good.  Any chance you have some links to how to do the airdam?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 14, 2013, 07:41:31 AM
The main discussion on the splitter/air dam happens in post #225 in this thread.  The discussion about the splitter design is here at MT.  Please be reminded to NOT post there as a newbie or you will be flamed off the board.  Sorry, I can't help you over there...  :buck2:

http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/splitter-height-70456/ (http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/splitter-height-70456/)

A member there named Paul works in fluid dynamics and did a model on the miata shape.  These images are his from the thread I linked and show the same car with 6 different nose configurations and ride heights:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/cfd_model_zps5ad19e37.sized.jpg)
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/cfd_data_zps0ebf2c6a.sized.jpg)
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/cfd_xz_plane_pressure_plots_zpsaf75675e.sized.jpg)
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/cfd_xz_plane_velocity_plot_zpsc3a097e4.sized.jpg)
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/cfd_ground_pressure_plot_zps6f24ea81.sized.jpg)

My car is in configuration #6 which provides the lowest drag, produces the most downforce at speed and requires the least power to maintain that speed.  If you have any questions, feel free to ask but know I will just be referencing Paul's comments and parroting the information.   :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on April 15, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
Did the 1/4" plywood seem to hold up?  I read people using 3/8", so I wasn't sure if 1/4" would be think enough.  You obviously have more power now, but could you tell a difference with the aero stuff?

Looks great BTW. :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 15, 2013, 03:52:08 PM
There is a little defection but it only extends past the air dam by ~2".  I didn't scrape anywhere on the track that I could hear.  I'll need some high res photos at speed or a precariously mounted gopro to know for sure.  I was going faster through every section of the track and the only time either end of the car got loose were powering out of low speed corners so I know there is a lot more time on the table.  I could gain almost a full second between the entry to turn 1 and the exit to turn 3 if I had the courage to turn in @130  :shockeyes:.

Short answer:  Yes, the aero work was immediately noticeable and worth at least half of the 6.5 seconds - more when I learn to trust it.  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: VolCrew on April 15, 2013, 11:08:11 PM
Hyde, here'seomthing to go with your cot wing!
 :D :D
http://www.spoilercaps.com/


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on April 16, 2013, 02:52:25 AM
Hyde, you are a beautiful man for sharing that with us.  I'm very impressed by the effectiveness of #3, just adding a Corvette-style airdam.  That's not an unattractive idea.  And it's apparently not too hard to do either.

http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25844.0.html

Plus it can be done for a streetable car.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 16, 2013, 04:38:35 AM
I suspect our MSM 'splitter' has some benefit over the bone stock NA nose in the models.  It may be placebo, but back when I tracked the MSM, I felt like the nose of the car was more planted >130 with the Track Dog splitter and it's just plastic held on with plastic.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: HELLIONMX5 on April 16, 2013, 05:23:45 AM
another project gets added to the list........


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 16, 2013, 08:41:59 AM
I leave for MRLS in 8 days and there is a lot to do.  I'm in the middle of a brake job and decided to repack the front hubs while everything was off.  I got a tube of the Amsoil full synthetic racing grease and worked over each hub.  There was some nasty black tar looking goo in there but the metal was clean.  I'm going to make this a ritual each winter.  With a little routine maintenance, I should be able to get the hubs to last for a while.  The loads on them just increased significantly...

'95MSM made the mistake of asking if I needed a hand with anything.  I wanted to build an air box around my filter but that kind of fabrication would take a big chunk of time out of my remaining time allotment so he's going to take on the project.  There will be another piece of '95MSM artwork on the car after Thursday and pictures will be prominent!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on April 21, 2013, 04:51:25 AM
Hmmm. I didn't mean to post right after Brian made the comment about the airbox, but I guess that just can't be helped.

I wish you guys could see the transformation this car has gone through.  It arrived in VERY rough condition - maybe not even running.  The demise of MSM 606 happened at just the right time for Brian to make it the mechanical basis for the track car.  Last year it was mechanically functional, had no aero help and truthfully looked a little ratty. He fixed the significant bodywork issues and repainted those areas late last year, his aero mods are effective and look good, and with the race car graphics and Plastidip stripes on it now, the car is looking quite sharp. I mean, who looks beyond that COT wing, anyway??? This is an impressively fast car for a very modest investment of $$ (major investment in time).

I'm happy to have been able to give him a fabrication tip or two along the way, and I'm very pleased with the way the airbox turned out.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 21, 2013, 01:25:16 PM
I'm happy to have been able to give him a fabrication tip or two along the way, and I'm very pleased with the way the airbox turned out.

There will always be one thing on the car that doesn't quite 'fit' because it is of better workmanship that I have, and that is this airbox.   :mrgreen:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4200077.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/gallery/SplitterAirdam/P4200079.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4200080.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4200081.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4200082.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P4200083.sized.jpg)

I looked through my box of stickers, logos and graphics and I don't have anything from FM.  I guess I need to call Keith and buy something?   The Mazda logo will need to do since '95MSM doesn't have his artwork produced yet!  :P

Edit:  Bonus points for the first person to identify the special touch that proves where this came from.   :angel1:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on April 21, 2013, 03:30:03 PM
Nice work you guys. That should keep those IAT's in check. I like the Air-dam scrap cover. I was thinking of a plexi one for my design to view hydraulic fluid levels.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 21, 2013, 11:37:19 PM
Mark did all the real work. I stuck the heat reflecting tape on and riveted the mount for the boost controller plus I stuck the Mazda logo on.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 23, 2013, 11:17:09 PM
I went out yesterday to bed brakes and then idled in the garage for about 10 minutes to check the fan operation.  The intake temp stayed at ambient the entire time.  I also strapped a GoPro to the shock tower to see if the engine rocking in the mounts was too much for the mostly rigid pipe and it seems fine.  I think this can be counted as a success!   thumup


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on April 24, 2013, 04:23:21 PM
Hyde hasn't posted about checking the cornerweights on the car while I worked on the airbox.

The last time I used my scales on a street car, my vinyl floor tile shims were getting brittle (15 years old!) & I tossed them out. Brian had parked the car at an angle in the garage and magically found spots for the scales that were pretty darn level side to side. We dropped the Miata onto the scales, rolled it back and forth several times and the fronts were dead even.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 24, 2013, 04:40:37 PM
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.   :mrgreen:  My ride height adjustment yielded what was essentially a perfect cross weight for a CCW track (all but two of the tracks I go to are CCW).  I was a little disappointed that the total curb weight with 1/2 a tank of gas was 2260.  That's still a bit porky IMO.  I can still save:

30# with a fiberglass hard top
15# with big brake kit
20# with small battery
10# with aluminum seats (25# if I removed the passenger seat)

That's without cutting things up.  There are a bunch of places to trim, literally.  The trunk lid supports and hinges are a great place but the tail of the car wasn't the heavy part.  At least there will be something to do next winter!  :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: bigx5murf on April 24, 2013, 05:53:19 PM
How much weight do you think the cage adds?


Title: Re: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on April 24, 2013, 10:22:26 PM
You still have a passenger seat???


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on April 24, 2013, 10:32:20 PM
Passenger seats are required at some events if you need an instructor or a check ride and you can't give rides without one.   :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on April 25, 2013, 03:54:17 AM
And I need a place to relax when Brian drives me around new tracks.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 25, 2013, 06:17:04 AM
I thoroughly enjoy giving rides. I haven't had an instructor in a while but I take people out all the time. Mark was boring compared to the really hot 20ish girl that jumped in and then squealed for the entire session a few years ago. THAT was fun! ;)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 25, 2013, 06:19:15 AM
The cage was around 100# but a stock hard dog is almost 50.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on May 01, 2013, 04:58:09 AM
I changed my Avatar to honor '90MSMs heroic trip to MRLS. 

As mentioned in the other thread, I lost this bolt in the transmission in the middle of the 3rd session Saturday.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MRLS2013/IMG_1020.sized.jpg)

I took the transmission out before realizing how easy the fix was but now I can say I R&R'd my transmission on jackstands in the paddock at a track weekend - started at lunch and was done in time for dinner.   :mrgreen:  Full disclosure on the heroics though:

My friend Bob Bundy has blown up 9 transmissions in his car over the last several years.  He's very good at changing them.  He's also around 6'1" and 240 with plenty of upper body strength.  After removing the unit and fixing it, Bob came back in from his first session out on his new 6 speed.  "Hey Bob, can you help me lift this thing into the car?  I can't bench press it and move it around at the same time."

"Sure, no problem," says Bob.

He crawls under my car and I slide him the transmission then I go around to the passenger side to crawl under and 'help'.  By the time I get there, he has wrestled the thing onto the clutch disk and is hunting for the pilot bearing.  His big request of me was to move the clutch line to the side a bit so he could press the spline the rest of the way in.  It took him literally 90 seconds what usually takes me 30 minutes with a transmission jack.  I guess I need to go buy a gym membership and hit the weights...   :help:

So, even though I will brag about how I did the transmission swap, only missed two sessions and still made it to dinner, it was really Bob that did the heavy lifting - literally!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on May 01, 2013, 06:29:39 AM
I guess I need to go buy a gym membership and hit the weights...   :help:

So, even though I will brag about how I did the transmission swap, only missed two sessions and still made it to dinner, it was really Bob that did the heavy lifting - literally!   :mrgreen:

It sounds like you need to go buy a Bob.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on May 01, 2013, 10:31:32 AM
I guess I need to go buy a gym membership and hit the weights...   :help:

So, even though I will brag about how I did the transmission swap, only missed two sessions and still made it to dinner, it was really Bob that did the heavy lifting - literally!   :mrgreen:

It sounds like you need to go buy a Bob.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on May 01, 2013, 01:44:08 PM
I assume this bolt is only accessible with the transmission fully out of the car?  You can't access is via the hole if the shifter is removed? 

Congrats on the good weekend and only missing a couple of session with the trans. problem. 

One of these days, I would love to make it out to LS, but it is a long drive from the east coast.   :(


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on May 01, 2013, 09:16:39 PM
I guess I need to go buy a gym membership and hit the weights...   :help:

So, even though I will brag about how I did the transmission swap, only missed two sessions and still made it to dinner, it was really Bob that did the heavy lifting - literally!   :mrgreen:

It sounds like you need to go buy a Bob.
1) Why spend money on a gym membership when you can simply build a near-400 hp Miata and get your workouts lifting transmissions??
2) Why buy a  Bob when you can rent?
3) But if you really need your own Bob, just send 17 easy payments of $100 to Bob's wife. (Inside joke.)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: '95MSM on May 01, 2013, 09:26:07 PM
Brian now has his nose to the work grind-stone, but we have discussed this a little bit.  You need more clearance above the trans than what you have with it fully in place.  Brian is confident that you could tilt the tail of the trans down and get enough clearance.  How much of the PPF and driveshaft you need to remove is unknown until someone tries it.  How hard it would be on the motor mounts is also unknown. 

The worst case scenario would be to remove the PPF, remove the driveshaft from the diff, take the weight of the engine off the motormounts and release them from the subframe, then tilt the trans down.  It could be that there is enough give in the motormounts that you don't have to monkey with the engine, and it might be possible to remove the PPF from the trans and loosen it from the diff, push it off to one side, etc. If you have to remove the driveshaft, drain the trans oil or it will gush out the tail of the trans.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on May 02, 2013, 12:22:43 AM
There were dozens of people at this event more knowledgeable than me about the workings of a 6 speed.  I asked the smartest miata guy I know about the cover and he said there wasn't anything serviceable under there.  He was wrong and out of professional courtesy, he will remain anonymous.   :mrgreen:

It looks like Bob's marriage may survive the 'unauthorized' $1,700 transmission.  Kim is cracking jokes about it on Facebook which generally doesn't happen when you have retained the divorce attorney.   :buck2:  Funny fact - she found out about it when their bank called her because the transaction flagged a fraud alert.  So much for Bob making it home and breaking it to her gently...   :roll:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on May 02, 2013, 01:40:03 AM
The good news is their identities didn't get stolen.  The bad news is they are liable for $1700.

I asked the smartest miata guy I know about the cover and he said there wasn't anything serviceable under there.  He was wrong and out of professional courtesy, he will remain anonymous.   :mrgreen:

Can we play 20 questions?  Is it somebody we know (i.e. on this forum)?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on May 02, 2013, 02:16:01 AM
He's a smart guy who knows a ton about Miatas and no, he isn't a member here (or is rarely active if he is).  He felt bad that I pulled the tranny when I probably could have fixed it in the car.  We all make mistakes...  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on May 02, 2013, 07:31:14 PM
Wow your car gets sexier with every update! The only thing I wish you would give us is some high resolution shots so I can use as a desktop background :)

I don't think the license allows me to share the full res images but if you read otherwise, let me know which one would be of interest.   thumup

http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web130427/606brian/index.html (http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web130427/606brian/index.html)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on August 17, 2013, 05:51:51 PM
I finally got around to linearizing the temperature gauge to see if the FM crossflow would be good enough without the fans but with this ducting I posted about 1/30/13 a few pages back.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137866.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/P1137867.sized.jpg)

Because the gauge cluster is from an NA, the process was a little different than the MSM/NB process we have in the FAQ section.  I ended up with a gauge that reports this:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/Untitled1.png)

I verified it with the ECU through about 210* and the resolution is perfect.  I went to the track yesterday where the ambient ended up in the mid 80s despite a forecast for MUCH cooler.  Sitting on grid with the fan on, it would sit dead center/ 12 noon at 210*.  As soon as I started moving, it came down.  By Turn 3 I was sitting between 195* and 200* and I couldn't get it to go up no matter how hard I pushed it.  The only fan I have is a single OEM/NA fan with no shroud.  WHP should be in the 260 to 270 range.  This is is more empirical proof that the FM radiator is excellent and ducting is the name of the game on the track!   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on August 18, 2013, 12:42:08 AM
Impressive numbers!!  Looks like more evidence that points toward future mods for me.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on August 18, 2013, 02:20:30 AM
Good to see you finally have that beast under control... temp-wise at least.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on August 18, 2013, 06:59:04 AM
I'm very glad to have 'cooling' completely off the list of things to address.  I re-did my splitter for Friday too with 1/2" ply (15/32) instead of 5/16".  I'm still not happy with the level.  The FM oil cooler is in the way to move the back of it any higher and I don't want to put the front any lower.  The front is just about perfect as it make a slight contact at two points of the local track.

I've decided I want a slight downward rake at rest.  Every picture I've seen of my car at speed shows the rear squatting down under acceleration and the force of the wing but the front is lifting higher than at rest.  With the new splitter, the car was a little more stable above 120 (135  :shockeyes: ) and I got it balanced with tire pressure and shock settings but it still doesn't stick like it should. I may be getting greedy.  I have entire sequences over 1g with several spikes over 1.2g.  With the wing working like it should, I should be over 1.4 in every normal corner.

This lap is 3 seconds off my best time when the air was cool and dense in April.  ~85 ambient yesterday.  The green is .9 to 1.0, yellow 1.0 to 1.2 and red is over 1.2 lateral g.  Google Earth needs to send the bird back over.  The track has a paved paddock and driveway now.   :laugh:

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/SplitterAirdam/Ridge8_16_13.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on August 18, 2013, 01:22:50 PM
Very cool.  I noticed that most of your red g's are in the slower corners.  Do you think that if your brain would stop yelling at you to slow down, more grip cold be found in the faster corners?  :D  I would think the faster you go, the more downforce you will generate and the more grip you would have.  I know my sense of survival kicks in at the faster corners and there is more speed to be had with the wing. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on August 19, 2013, 02:39:35 AM
EXACTLY what is happening here.   :P


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 20, 2013, 07:34:31 AM
I have been working through different things this year and haven't got the car sorted exactly as I want it quite yet, but I'm hopeful some resolution is near.  I've been limping along all season on scrubs I've cobbled together from friends and acquaintances.  I had a good bonus at work and finally felt like I could pull the trigger on some 9" wheels and fresh NT-01s I went out on last week.  It may be placebo but I do feel like they turned in a bit better.  I also made some adjustments on the splitter so that could have an effect too.  My used brake pads (reported to be XP12s) tried to kill me once but fortunately the turn goes deep so the only thing harmed was my flyer lap.  Even overcooking that turn, it was the fastest lap of the day for me.   ::)

I have fresh pads on the way and will be considering a BBK over the winter.  The track I frequent most often has the 2nd fastest straight brake downhill into a 120* hairpin that is the slowest point of the track.  This is ~20 seconds after the 3rd fastest point braking into the sharpest ~150* hairpin on the track.  I need to be able to stand on them with confidence and I don't think the OEM brakes can handle it regardless of the pads.

The last two times out, I started to have misfires after the first few sessions.  It seems like spark blowing out despite being gapped to .020.  I took '95MSM's lead and put on some Toyota COPs.  This is the quick and dirty install to see if the coils were OK running wasted spark.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/photo.sized.jpg)

I don't have enough working outputs on my poor 420 Adaptronic to run sequential so I have a new 440 to install when I have more time.  I'll do the basic clean up of the wires as they sit for wasted spark and then do a permanent harness clean up when I put in the 440 and go sequential.  Running the two extra wires shouldn't be a problem since I have an unused O2 sensor wire and an unused EGR next to the ignition wires.  The 440 plugs directly into the OEM/MSM engine harness so the only trick will be configuring it to utilize the wires already there.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 14, 2014, 10:31:37 AM
It's been a while since this was updated.  I'll try to backdate some of the small items done over the winter but in the meantime, I got a chance to go out for the first day this year.  The car behaved very well until my suspect catch can failed to breathe all the boost I was pushing and ejected the dipstick at ~133mph.  That made a very exciting smoke show!   :shockeyes:  This video was from earlier in the day.  Harry's Laptimer now overlays entire sessions onto external video (gopro, etc.) which is an extremely cool tool!

http://youtu.be/bmKwuKJ0drc (http://youtu.be/bmKwuKJ0drc)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on April 14, 2014, 02:04:58 PM
Thanks for sharing Brian.

The car sounds great and your smooth driving is always a treat to watch.

It was great fun watching you reel the German iron in and then blow by.    drivingss


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 14, 2014, 06:58:39 PM
This was a lapping day with Hooked on Driving which I haven't run with before.  I bought a package over the winter because their dates on the calendar worked best for my schedule.  Their numbers are backwards - the advanced group with everyone else I have run with is 'A' but is 'D' with them.  They still allow open passing which is nice but John and I were running 6-10 seconds faster than the other cars so we didn't feel comfortable pushing the other drivers without a point-by.  On a positive note, the D group was very small.

'90MSM got a new head over the winter to solve some bad leak down numbers on #1.  Now the compression numbers are within 5psi across the board.   :mrgreen:  Other updates include a large idiot light hooked to pressure switches on the oil and water systems.  In addition to the temp and pressure gauges, I know that this bright orange light going off at WOT down the straight means *panic* and lift.  Which system lit the light is less important than knowing there is a critical problem in the precious second or two before you hear strange sounds from the motor or notice gauges pegged or flat.

I also installed a Kirkey seat which is lighter than the Corbeau, gives me a better driving position and squeezes the love handles much better.  I ran all day Friday without the aid of performance enhancing drugs (Dramamine).  Last year's splitter and air dam were modified to provide a better angle which dramatically improved stability and downforce.  This is a butt dyno impression but I did run consistent laps in the range of my previous personal best and cut over 1/2 second off that time from last year.

I also took the FM oil cooler out and am in the process of fixing up a larger cooler.  The sandwich plate is in with the oil pressure (idiot light) and temperature senders and I have a loop of 10an line in place of the new cooler that had a leak.  Without the cooler, I was seeing 240* oil at 60* ambient so those temps should drop a bunch when the cooler goes in.  The FM cooler worked great but the location on the steering rack complicated ducting and the angle of the splitter.  This new design should work better for my application.  I'll update with pics in the next few days.

The truck also got a class C hitch/receiver and air bags to keep things level when loaded.  The driver got a very nice Simpson driving suit (on sale!) and some new gloves and shoes so the winter budget was well spent, even if it didn't all end up as go-fast bits on '90MSM!



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on April 15, 2014, 09:32:36 PM
Any details on the water pressure light?  I have thought about installing another LED in the gauge cluster for water pressure. 

Is the splitter set level to the ground when the car is not moving or angled slightly down?  My thought is the wing would have more downforce than the front and push the rear downward at speed.  I have mine set as level as I can, but I also have the large dive planes.  Car felt very planted with this arrangement.

I'll have to check on the in-car when I have a few minutes.



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 17, 2014, 06:44:05 AM
Any details on the water pressure light?  I have thought about installing another LED in the gauge cluster for water pressure. 

I got a basic warning light from Summit/Jegs or one of the usual online subjects.  It is wired hot from the dash cluster and a ground lead goes to the engine compartment to the switch.  It came with a pressure switch for the water pressure that is normally closed and takes just a pound or two to open.  I bought an oil pressure switch to match and ran them in parallel.  If either the water or oil pressure goes away, the light comes on.  The light is right in the middle of the cluster eclipsing the other (non functional) idiot lights so you would want to find a better solution in an MSM.

I hadn't thought of a pressure switch for the water before until I noticed all the 949 team cars had them when I was at the 25hr race with them.  I asked William why and he said simply that alarms/idiot lights for the pressure of the two fluids was critical.  If you suddenly lost pressure due to a burst hose (external oil coolers have hoses too) or punctured heat exchanger and the alarm went off, you would have a chance to save the motor.  If you waited to notice gauges displaying extreme values (if you happened to notice) or heard strange noises, the engine was toast.  He recalled two motors that had been saved in race situations with these.

Is the splitter set level to the ground when the car is not moving or angled slightly down?  My thought is the wing would have more downforce than the front and push the rear downward at speed.  I have mine set as level as I can, but I also have the large dive planes.  Car felt very planted with this arrangement.

The splitter is more level now and has a slight downward rake despite being slightly higher at the leading edge than it was last year.  I don't have a doctorate in computational fluid dynamics so I can't argue with the engineers about the merits of flat splitters but my common sense approach tells me that on a production car without a flat underbody or engineered ground effects, you want to keep as much air out from under the car as possible and have a slight downward rake to the splitter.  Having it perfectly flat just seems to increase the volume of air that hits the subframe and builds up under the car.  I take very few cues from NASCAR but what we do is closer to what they do than what F1 does.

The car has never felt as planted as it did last week and I saw a lot of sustained 1.3 and 1.4gs on the data.  This is on NT-01s and not having what I would call an aggressive alignment.  I was burying the needle at 140mph indicated (133gps verified) and had no hint of wander or float.  I don't have significantly more power than last year so the drag can't be hurting me much.  The exit off the last corner must be faster since the best I could get on the GPS last year was 129mph.  I will look at dive planes later in the summer after everything else is sorted.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on April 17, 2014, 12:06:38 PM
Thanks for the water info.  I'll have to do some thinking on how I might could run a water pressure light.  It doesn't sound like it would be hard to install other than it would be in the cluster and finding a location to install a pressure stitch in the system.  Where did you install the water switch?

Makes sense with the splitter.  I have mine set at 3" from the ground.  I agree that lower is better, but I also have to be practical.  Lower is more dangerous in the event of an off and I don't want 30' ramps.   :laugh: I have 5' extensions and that is long enough for me.  Do you know how low yours is set? 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on April 17, 2014, 12:29:16 PM
Where did you install the water switch?

I used a unit like this on the Subie when I needed to add a sender for the water temp.  Should work okay for the pressure switch too

http://prosportgauges.com/water-temp-sender-radiator-hose-adaptor.aspx



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Okibi on April 17, 2014, 04:33:24 PM
This is what I use on my cars http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/parts/wsensoradapter.htm


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Maduh on April 17, 2014, 05:47:36 PM
This is what I use on my cars http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/parts/wsensoradapter.htm

Do you know what the price is in US dollars? I tried converting the 8,640 to dollars and got $1389 which can't be right lol.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on April 17, 2014, 05:52:45 PM
This is what I use on my cars http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/parts/wsensoradapter.htm

Do you know what the price is in US dollars? I tried converting the 8,640 to dollars and got $1389 which can't be right lol.

According to the currency calculator I use it's 84.3519 USD


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Okibi on April 18, 2014, 02:46:09 AM
I know Bill at MiataRoadster.com sells Maruha parts and he's an awesome guy to deal with.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 18, 2014, 07:51:33 AM
My water switch is in my reroute adapter plate but the in-hose unit would be fine if you attach the ground strap.  Here is the the idiot light.  I cleared out 4 OEM idiot lights to make room but it will get my attention in any circumstance. 

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_1.sized.jpg)

Aluminum Kirkey seat has greatly improved driving position.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_2.sized.jpg)

New oil cooler mounted in place of the second fan.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_3.sized.jpg)

Glowshift sandwich plate with bungs for the oil pressure switch and oil temperature.  The temp sender is on the way to the cooler and the pressure switch is on the way back from the cooler.  If I lose an oil line, the pressure light will go off a second or two before the sump goes dry.  I can't recall how the BP motor is plumbed but putting the pressure switch closest to the most likely point of failure makes sense to me.   :mrgreen:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_4.sized.jpg)

The cooler is just mounted to the bungs on the radiator where the fans would normally mount.  The sandwich plate doesn't have a t-stat so the cooler located behind the radiator will help it come to temperature and not overcool.  I wouldn't run a street car like this but it will work fine on '90MSM.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_5.sized.jpg)

My splitter is ~3" off the ground but I need to verify that when I get the new one put together.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on April 18, 2014, 10:40:44 AM
Any chance of those oil cooler lines "sawing" through your swaybar?

Consider sheathing them with split loom if it's even remotely possible (I'm paranoid about stainless steel hoses after seeing photos of one that sawed through an intercooler pipe).


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on April 19, 2014, 05:00:15 AM
They have pretty good clearance despite how the pictures look but I am planning to wrap them too.  I usually use scraps of old radiator hose and a few zip ties when something might make contact.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 02, 2014, 05:39:22 AM
It turns out the new splitter is 2.5" off the ground but car was hooked up on Thursday at a track day in Portland.  I cut over 4 seconds off my personal best which was pre-aero from 2 years ago.  Here is the fast lap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O--SAMrmyM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O--SAMrmyM)  There is at LEAST another second in the car at my driving skill and probably another 3 for a hot shoe.  I dropped between .5 and 1 second each session all day as I re-learned the track and learned to trust the freakish grip a functioning splitter, airdam and wing provides. 

The new oil cooler location worked great.  We were at a ~70 degree ambient and the oil temps stayed below 210 all day even when really pushing it.

I did a few things since last time out I will mention since this is the minutia of a build thread:

1.  As mentioned, this was a new splitter made out of birch ply instead of fir so it was much stiffer.  I also redid the air dam and mouth for the heat exchangers.  The opening is around 30% smaller now.  Water temps were up slightly but now they are running around 200* instead of sitting on the thermostat.  The smaller opening also provides better downforce so this is the tradeoff - smallest opening possible to still give adequate cooling.  I may rig up a sliding opening I can adjust to the ambient temps.  We see some days in the 50s and I've been out in 90* before.  The 200* water and 210* oil I consider to be perfect for flatout on the track.   :mrgreen:

2.  I installed a rear brace for the Kirkey seat.  It really firms up the seat and makes it even more stable.  They are also required in most CCRs so it was a good investment from multiple angles.

3.  I was doing my annual front bearing repack and one of the bearing keepers finally gave up and shattered.  How a piece of plastic has survived this long in those conditions is beyond me!   :shockeyes:  Anyway, I got a set of ebay hubs and packed them with good Amsoil grease.  They worked great and I'll take a closer look at them after a few more days on the track.

4.  New rotors (Napa - did you know they give a 10% discount to AAA members?) and XP12 fronts.  The last set of pads had some taper wear.  I'm going to try to flip them this time.  I really thing a BBK would be a good investment this year.  These calipers are going to need rescuing soon anyway.  They have been on fire more times than disco.

5.  I added a fire bottle to the center console.  Also recommended (required?) by most TT organizations and after the dipstick popping out at >130mph, I thought it might be nice to put out my own fires (not related to brakes).

6.  The catch can system that was allowing the crankcase to pressurize and pop the dipstick was scrapped.  I got a larger can with a larger vent/filter and capped the PCV nipple on the intake manifold.  The intake side cam vent went through a PCV and then directly into the can.  I thought about a gutted PCV but was told oil would slosh out under heavy cornering so I went with the functioning valve even though none of the catch can system is under vacuum.  Regardless, the oil tube didn't move an inch, the catch can didn't accumulate anything and I used perhaps 2 or 3 cups of oil during 6 hard sessions.  I arrived full and didn't feel the need to add any all day.  Both straights on this track had heavy use of the Porsche button which currently yields ~17psi.  This issue is officially resolved... until the boost gets turned up higher with the new turbo.   :angel1:

A preview of things in the on-deck circle:

I picked up a transponder from a shop that builds and rebuilds various race cars and need to install it before the next time trial.

I got a set of LE/R package tie rod ends.  That, plus a shim of the steering rack should help the bump steer a bunch.

For the next alignment (post tie rod upgrade), I have a new set of OEM alignment bolts.

The BNR style turbo upgrade.

I have a set of 3.9 gears from an early RX7 that need to go in.  I'm pretty certain, they will be a nice upgrade on the local track I run most often and will make it possible for the car to run Pacific Raceways that is now even faster  :shockeyes: with a new surface on the back third of the track.  The 4.10s would have me on the rev limiter for around 2 full seconds which is not how I like to balance the car through T1 when the speedo has gone past 6 o'clock and is getting ready for its morning coffee. 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on June 02, 2014, 04:29:16 PM
Sounds like a very good track weekend.  2.5" is getting pretty low and no problem as long as you keep it on the track.  :D


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: sfcarbone on June 02, 2014, 05:20:31 PM
Don't flip the brake pads after they have a lot of taper, that is a bad idea.  Sure, you might get a little more life out of them, but your brakes will only have a fraction of the contact patch until they wear in properly.  You will likely have one bad session of brakes and another one where you are re-learning your brake markers and trusting them again.  I've done it myself and would never do again.

I will concede that flipping them each session BEFORE they develop bad taper might be cost effective and not mess with the braking ability, but have to question the time PIA/benefit.

Steve


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 10, 2014, 01:15:15 AM
A preview of things in the on-deck circle:

I picked up a transponder from a shop that builds and rebuilds various race cars and need to install it before the next time trial.

I got a set of LE/R package tie rod ends.  That, plus a shim of the steering rack should help the bump steer a bunch. Done

For the next alignment (post tie rod upgrade), I have a new set of OEM alignment bolts. Done

The BNR style turbo upgrade.

I have a set of 3.9 gears from an early RX7 that need to go in. Done

My buddy Bob killed his 4th 6 speed two weeks ago which blew his budget for the NASA weekend.  I skipped it too so I haven't got the transponder done yet but some of the other nice bits are ready to roll!  I'll see how they shake out Thursday.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: joeereid on June 10, 2014, 02:13:13 AM
Did you get the 3.9 gears in?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Lokiel on June 10, 2014, 02:30:27 AM
Have you had a chance to evaluate the location of the oil cooler and how the removal of the radiator fan impacts your water temps?

I assume that coming into the pits your water temperature must go sky high or does your other fan keep that to a tolerable level?
I also assume that with suitable ducting, the loss of the fan when on the track is not an issue but is your oil getting cooled enough sited behind the radiator?

We're really limited to where we can actually mount an effective oil cooler and yours is the only one I've seen that mounts it behind the radiator (more common solutions are in front of the radiator, intercooler, the "not-so great" angled FM compromise on the steering rack, or behind a foglight - if you have one) so I'm interested in your experience with this setup.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on June 10, 2014, 10:41:29 AM

My buddy Bob killed his 4th 6 speed two weeks ago which blew his budget for the NASA weekend. 

Has Bob considered trying to get an adapter plate made and hooking up some other transmission like the unit FM is using for the LS swap?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 11, 2014, 08:44:19 AM
The 3.9s are in. 

I'm pretty happy with the oil cooler for now - I haven't been out above 80* ambient yet so I'll reserve the full endorsement.  Previously with the full ducting, I was at thermostat temps for water and under 200* for the oil with the FM kit ducted which was overcooling on both counts.  I shrunk the aperture at the mouth by around 30% and re-ducted to have the larger oil cooler behind the radiator which works great so far.  The coolant is getting up near 200 but not hotter and the oil is around 210.  The first time out in this configuration, I just had the oil line looped with no cooler and got oil temps over 240* at a 60* ambient so I know the cooler behind the radiator is doing something still.  I'll continue to monitor it and see how it goes.

On the fan, I use just a single OEM fan on the passenger side but it never comes on if the car is moving.  I have it for idling on grid on if there is a red flag on track.  Otherwise, a reasonable cool down lap gets everything as cool as it is going to get so I just shut the car off when I park.  If I sit and idle in the paddock space, the temps just go up until the fans come on.  I haven't really checked to see if the fan will keep critical overheating in check indefinitely - my hunch is no, but the car isn't designed to handle rush hour in Houston with the AC running.   ^-^

Bob is working on a quaiff but also has a Nissan 6 speed he thinks he can Frankenstein into the miata bellhousing and rotating bits.  As Mark rightly suggested, any miata 6 speed arriving at Bob's shop should be offered a blindfold, a cigarette and a priest to administer last rights... :help:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 13, 2014, 06:26:33 AM
Well, I'm very happy with the 3.9 gears.  I took .86 second off my previous best from April and never felt like I was between gears.  I'm also very happy with the bump stop adjustments - there was a noticeable reduction in pushback on the wheel.  The alignment was redone to feature 6* of Caster to go with the 2.5* of negative camber but I still couldn't get the insides of the front tires hotter than the outside.  The wheel wasn't too heavy but I would never want to run this car in autocross or endurance without a larger wheel and less caster.

Here are the 4 fastest laps.  The last one is the fastest but they are all within .5 seconds and all faster than my previous best.  Side note:  I'm not sure why my data overlay got my G meter diagonal but the number look accurate with 1.3s all over the place and a few 1.5s to remind me why I need to check the hubs every winter!   ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJxZ_YqEZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJxZ_YqEZk)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on June 13, 2014, 12:17:05 PM
What do you mean by pushback in the wheel related to the bumps tops?



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on June 13, 2014, 01:52:21 PM
Terrific that you had a clear track ... S M O O T H!.   thumup


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 13, 2014, 03:53:30 PM
What do you mean by pushback in the wheel related to the bumps tops?

When the car is too low related to the angle or the tie rods, the movement of suspension up and down changes the alignment toe in and out which pushes and pulls the steering wheel in your hands.  With the new setup, I had much less of this which helped confidence and probably helped grip to an extent.

Tie tires were 4 year old scrubs that were so wintered over on the first session that they felt like Big Wheel slicks for the first 3 laps.  Smooth did not describe the driving until they scuffed off the hard coat and got hot!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: scotty b on June 13, 2014, 11:07:04 PM
Wow, looks like you are holding 1.3g+ through the sweepers. Color me impressed!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on July 21, 2014, 04:47:31 AM
http://youtu.be/IaZD0w4IMfo (http://youtu.be/IaZD0w4IMfo)

This video is from The Ridge Friday.  I was going to Oregon Raceway Park two weeks ago but found my FM Crossflow had sprung a leak so I was a scratch.  When an aluminum radiator starts leaking in the middle of a tube with no apparent damage, it can only mean one thing:  Electrolysis.  I repaired the first leak and found a second in a different tube a few inches away.  RIP FM Crossflow...   :sad1:  I ordered a $120 special from a Chinese prison and put it in last week.  I thought I was having trouble with an air bubble but it turned out the pressure sender was just stuck.  You'll notice the panic light is on for the entire video so I had an eye on the gauges more than I like.

I took a seat mount and strapped my laptop to it so I could do some datalogging for the first time in a while.  My primary interest was to see how my intake temps were running.  The stock MSM harness had the filter temp sender wired up and I had already confirmed my ducting was pulling ambient air into the turbo.  The new goal was to see what was happening at the throttle body.  I was thrilled to see at a ~75 ambient, I didn't get intake air over 106* for the whole day which is great with the small turbo doing 17psi pulls down the front straight.  I was also happy to see the AFRs rock solid in the 11.3 to 11.5 range.

The cheap fleabay radiator did an admirable job holding temps steady at 205* for several laps in a row.  I feel like the crossflow did a bit better but I only ran it once with the current mouth opening and for at least part of that day, there was a leak in the core.  At any rate, 205* is fine for now and another $525 radiator isn't part of the budget this summer. 

I knocked a few more tenths off my previous personal best.  Aside from the sender light, the car was flawless!    drivingss


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on July 21, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
How long did you have the crossflow??  Why do you think there was electrolysis??  Contact FM about it???


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on July 21, 2014, 01:31:14 PM
I particularly liked seeing you blow by the M3 near the end of the run.   drivingss   :laugh:

In the past two or three days, a couple of folks on the BMW board have regurgitated some of the disparaging girlie car/gay car Miata comments. 
I hope that the M3 driver was one of them!   :shockeyes:

I never respond to these posts; just shake my head at their ignorance.   :banghead:

BTW ... the usual smooth driving with a couple of nice recoveries.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: humming on July 21, 2014, 03:17:43 PM
I particularly liked seeing you blow by the M3 near the end of the run.   drivingss   :laugh:

In the past two or three days, a couple of folks on the BMW board have regurgitated some of the disparaging girlie car/gay car Miata comments. 
I hope that the M3 driver was one of them!   :shockeyes:

I never respond to these posts; just shake my head at their ignorance.   :banghead:

BTW ... the usual smooth driving with a couple of nice recoveries.

Just makes it that much more fun when you pull away from them  ;D I don't mind the jokes so much, I like my car and that's enough for me.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: turborascal on July 21, 2014, 03:32:02 PM
I particularly liked seeing you blow by the M3 near the end of the run.   drivingss   :laugh:

In the past two or three days, a couple of folks on the BMW board have regurgitated some of the disparaging girlie car/gay car Miata comments. 
I hope that the M3 driver was one of them!   :shockeyes:

I never respond to these posts; just shake my head at their ignorance.   :banghead:

BTW ... the usual smooth driving with a couple of nice recoveries.

Just makes it that much more fun when you pull away from them  ;D

+1.  If ignorance is bliss, we have the explanation for their giddy happiness.   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Back on topic ... I'm STILL impressed with Brian's skills.   thumup


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on July 21, 2014, 04:20:17 PM
Nice driving!  I wish we had tracks with elevation changes close by.   :sad1:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on July 22, 2014, 01:43:47 AM
The crossflow was in the black car for a year and this was its third season in '90MSM.  FM contacted the manufacturer but they didn't have anything to offer.  I love that all but one of our tracks (Portland) has great elevation changes.  It's so much fun compared to a flat track.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on July 24, 2014, 05:56:59 AM
Have you had a chance to evaluate the location of the oil cooler and how the removal of the radiator fan impacts your water temps?

For the record, I'm thrilled with this oil cooler configuration.  A street car wouldn't want to lose the second fan but for the track car, it is an extremely simple setup with no complicated ducting.  The temps on track last week seemed to be holding a steady 210* which is perfect for oil IMO.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re:
Post by: Lokiel on July 24, 2014, 07:43:52 AM
Thanks for the update.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 23, 2014, 06:11:03 AM
The car is getting pretty quick these days.  I had a fun two-day at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca with a couple of thousand other miatas and just got back from Oregon Raceway park last night.  The oil temps have been mostly kept in check but with ambient temps above 80 at ORP this weekend, I was seeing oil temps ~240* with water around 210*.  There were two money shifts at MRLS and I'm pretty certain I bent an intake valve or two.  I'm also not convinced the rings are as tight as they were when the motor was fresh.  There is a fair amount of smoke too...  A teardown is in order for the winter but I'm hopeful I can get one more double weekend out it!

I've been experimenting with brakes a bit starting at MRLS.  The old setup of XP12 front/rear was going through pads pretty quickly and not as balanced as I would like.  I went to XP24s in the front for Laguna and they are pretty awesome.  With a heat rage of 400*-2,000*f, they take a bit of time to get heat in them but the grip is astonishing.  I seemed to be out braking everyone and the pads seem to actually like being abused.  I ate up the 12s in the rear at Laguna and had to put on a set of used emergency pads for Sunday.  I ate those too and had to put a used mystery compound for ORP Sunday.  I haven't checked how they did but the braking was once again epic.  ORP is hard on brakes so I'm curious to go check.  XP8s are on order for the rear which should provide a better balance.

The transmission synchros are starting to crunch a bit in 3rd and 4th so I'm going to try a cocktail my buddy John has been using - one quart of Redline MT and one quart of light shockproof.

Here are videos from MRLS and ORP. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15QdHPULc9A&list=UUWmFKe7puUGsXFsknSLhYRA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15QdHPULc9A&list=UUWmFKe7puUGsXFsknSLhYRA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjVDbxUXRHY&list=UUWmFKe7puUGsXFsknSLhYRA


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on September 23, 2014, 10:48:26 AM
Your going to run 24 in the front and 8 in the back???  Seems like a pretty big spread to me?  I was running 20 in the front and 10 in the back on the Z06 and had to change to 20 and 12 to even the braking a bit.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: chance91 on September 23, 2014, 03:39:43 PM
Had to drop by and see what this "extra engine" you were building was for.  Looks like you properly flog the heck out of your car.  Looking forward to the new MSM motor2.0. 

Cheers,

Nick :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: 04TitaniumGrayPhilly on September 23, 2014, 04:35:47 PM
I love the location of the oil cooler. I presume that's with the lines that come with the FM kit? I would have never thought to put it there. My TSE radiator doesn't have the connections to mount it there however  :(


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 24, 2014, 04:32:07 AM
I talked to Sonny and Emilio for a while on this and they agreed that XP12s were providing too much rear bias and were probably not heating up completely.  This weekend I used some used 'mystery' pads which I think were probably XP8 and I really liked how they felt. 

Chance91 - I need to refresh the motor this winter and thought it might be a good time to build a full longblock with forged pistons.  Your spare box of parts could come in handy! 

Philly - I made the hoses for the cooler myself.  They are -10 where the FM lines are -8.  I like it overall but it did get a bit hotter than I liked Sunday (~240*) although the water was closer to ~210*.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on September 24, 2014, 10:24:25 AM
Did your mystery pads still have color on the backing plates?  I have the color chart somewhere for Carbotechs.


Found it, It's pre XP24 so if you can tell me the color of them I'll add it to the list.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album38/Carbotech_Brake_Pads.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 24, 2014, 04:30:29 PM
Did your mystery pads still have color on the backing plates?  

I seem to remember the XP24 pads being green like the RP2 but as a general rule, all of the brake pads on '90MSM have been on fire at some point so the original color is impossible to determine.   After a good day at the track the color of the backing plate is ash gray...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: 04TitaniumGrayPhilly on September 24, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
I talked to Sonny and Emilio for a while on this and they agreed that XP12s were providing too much rear bias and were probably not heating up completely.  This weekend I used some used 'mystery' pads which I think were probably XP8 and I really liked how they felt. 

Chance91 - I need to refresh the motor this winter and thought it might be a good time to build a full longblock with forged pistons.  Your spare box of parts could come in handy! 

Philly - I made the hoses for the cooler myself.  They are -10 where the FM lines are -8.  I like it overall but it did get a bit hotter than I liked Sunday (~240*) although the water was closer to ~210*.
There's probably a way to mount it in front of the radiator but behind the FMIC, in the AC core area. That would be a stretch, but might get better airflow. That's where the PS cooler on my car is. I don't mind the FM location for it, but it would be nice if the brackets were angled up a bit more to keep it off the ground. I've got a small dent on the corner of mine so I know it's seen something.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: chance91 on September 25, 2014, 09:38:15 AM
I managed to remove the oem LOL-power steering cooler loop, and re-use those mounts for my own unit.  I made them double duty, they held my inter cooler and my power steering cooler both.  you could do the same with oil/power steering or other variations.  Worked well for me, may be worth messing around with.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 25, 2014, 09:14:37 PM
I was going for a few different things with that placement:

1.  I wanted easy routing for the hoses - less length is less resistance in flow and less places to rub on things.
2.  My sandwich plate doesn't have thermostat so I wanted the cooler to preheat where possible and also avoid overcooling in cold temperatures.
3.  I wanted to be able to see the fitting to be able to watch for leaks.
4.  Didn't want to punch additional holes in the front and/or deal with additional ducting.
5.  Wanted the cooler to be relatively protected from track debris or minor impacts.

This winter, I'm going to seal between the radiator and oil cooler to force a bit more air through the oil cooler.  ~240* was the hottest oil I saw all season and that was with >80* ambient which is on the warm side for us.  I just checked the datalog from the weekend and the water topped out at 208* and the intake air at the throttle body was 135* and I am very happy with both of those numbers...  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: 04TitaniumGrayPhilly on September 25, 2014, 10:06:40 PM
I assumed you had the FM kit with the thermo plate. The FM location is good if you have a protective shield there. Iirc someone made a scoop for their FM cooler. I'll be watching this.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 25, 2014, 10:45:55 PM
The FM placement was interfering with my splitter and I wanted bungs in my sandwich plate for a pressure switch and temperature sender.  I also wanted a larger heat exchanger with more volume with -10 hoses and fittings.  The FM kit is great for a street car or dual purpose track day toys but I beat on '90MSM more than most MSMs that are taken to the track.   :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: schmoo on September 29, 2014, 01:43:09 PM
New oil cooler mounted in place of the second fan.

Glowshift sandwich plate with bungs for the oil pressure switch and oil temperature.  The temp sender is on the way to the cooler and the pressure switch is on the way back from the cooler.  If I lose an oil line, the pressure light will go off a second or two before the sump goes dry.  I can't recall how the BP motor is plumbed but putting the pressure switch closest to the most likely point of failure makes sense to me.   :mrgreen:
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_4.sized.jpg)

The cooler is just mounted to the bungs on the radiator where the fans would normally mount.  The sandwich plate doesn't have a t-stat so the cooler located behind the radiator will help it come to temperature and not overcool.  I wouldn't run a street car like this but it will work fine on '90MSM.
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/HydeBMW/photo_5.sized.jpg)

Do you find that the cooler drains itself when you're changing the oil? As in you don't have to undo all the fittings?

I'd like to mount mine such that it self drains. I'll refill it by cranking without fuel/spark to build some pressure before starting.

N


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on September 30, 2014, 04:25:09 AM
Do you find that the cooler drains itself when you're changing the oil? As in you don't have to undo all the fittings?

I'd like to mount mine such that it self drains. I'll refill it by cranking without fuel/spark to build some pressure before starting.

I don't feel comfortable describing it as 'draining' but a bunch does leak out the filter mount when you change it.  The majority of the filter is at an elevation higher than the sandwich plate.  I think a certain amount of old oil mixing with the new is to be expected but if it was a concern, I would just crack the AN and drain it manually.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: chance91 on September 30, 2014, 10:40:32 AM
Do you find that the cooler drains itself when you're changing the oil? As in you don't have to undo all the fittings?

I'd like to mount mine such that it self drains. I'll refill it by cranking without fuel/spark to build some pressure before starting.

I don't feel comfortable describing it as 'draining' but a bunch does leak out the filter mount when you change it.  The majority of the filter is at an elevation higher than the sandwich plate.  I think a certain amount of old oil mixing with the new is to be expected but if it was a concern, I would just crack the AN and drain it manually.

Could possibly find a cooler that has a drain plug as well.

I was digging through our parts stock the other day and found a transmission cooler for an Eaton-Fuller 10 speed.  Its about the same footprint as other large coolers I've seen, but the fins are huge, about 1 1/4 thick, and the coils look quite large, I'd say 3/8" or so.  I'm going to take a look at adapting one to my car.  I'll have to buy my own from a truck shop, but should be able to get a discount.  Haven't decided what to use it for but oil cooler seems like a good plan.  I already have a cheap but sufficient P/S cooler setup.

If anyone is interested in what I'm talking about:
http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@roadranger/documents/content/rr_apsl-0021.pdf

On the first page basically.  Large HD oil cooler, but with JIC ends on it.  I can make JIC hoses w/90 s easily for it, as I did my power steering system.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on September 30, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
I've always thought the quest to make sure an oil cooler is completely drained at an oil change is overkill.  Your leaving at worst a few ounces of oil in there and adding at least 4 new quarts.  The amount of old to new is insignificant and it's not like the oil has been in there 5 years and 20k miles.  Most of the people stressing over getting every last drop out of the system probably are changing their synthetic oil every few thousand miles anyway and the oil probably really doesn't even need changing.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: schmoo on September 30, 2014, 01:41:59 PM
I'm not obsessed about getting it 100% empty, just hoping to find a way to not have to undo the AN fittings.

Hyde's arrangement seems like there would be some old oils in the lines, but the cooler should be near empty.

The only way it could be better would be to have the sandwich plate's AN fittings on a slope so the lines can drain, too, but the space constraints might make that impossible.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: schmoo on September 30, 2014, 04:02:07 PM
I caught up on the thread and man, Brian... I don't have words.   :mrgreen:

Now to figure out how to make this oil cooler placement work with MSM's charge pipe routing.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 01, 2014, 06:25:44 AM
True, it would be a packaging nightmare with a more traditional charge pipe route.  I suppose with longer lines and a few 90s you could make anything happen but I wanted to minimize length and the quantity of fittings to keep things simple.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 23, 2014, 07:56:03 PM
A word of advice:  When you are going through the gears and at the top of 4th going ~95mph and then hit 3rd instead of 5th, make sure you have forged pistons.  This happened Saturday at Laguna.  :shockeyes:  I finished the day, drove all day Sunday and did 3 more days at local tracks turning personal best times at each before driving into the garage under its own power.  It ran fine except for a bit of smoke and the compression in #2 was ~105#.  The block might get by with just a hone although a small overbore would do it for sure.  Time for some Supertechs!!!   drivingss

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/photo_1.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/album268/photo_2.jpg)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Canyonfive on October 24, 2014, 12:19:54 AM
Did you hear anything to indicate that failure or was it just a momentary over rev?


Title: Re:
Post by: humming on October 24, 2014, 12:40:41 AM
Wow!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on October 24, 2014, 04:41:06 PM
I assume you let the clutch all the way out before you realized what happened.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on October 25, 2014, 06:18:43 AM
I was chasing the laptimer to the checkered flag and a car in front of me let off which broke my concentration a bit but I kept my foot in it.  I wasn't shifting gently and getting out of rhythm caused me to slam third instead of 5th and yes... the clutch came all the way out.  I don't know how much downforce the COT wing generates at the top of 4th gear but it is certainly enough to keep the rear wheels stuck to the ground.  I saw the tach swing past 6 o'clock...   :shockeyes: 


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on June 30, 2015, 06:15:54 AM
Happy 2015!  The winter rebuild took until the summer solstice but I'm happy to say '90MSM is track ready again.  Things took a really, really, really long time but there were some pretty nice tidying up that happened.

The motor was pretty easy.  The machine shop took the block out to 83.5 to make room for the smallest Supertechs but he thinks it would have actually cleaned up enough for OEM size despite the #2 piston blowing up.  He also cleaned up the head and said it should be fine which was nice I didn't need to use my spare for the build.  I put in new bearings although the ones that came out looked pretty good.  The build only had about 5k miles on it - all at redline on the track - so it help up pretty well overall.  The previous ebay rods went back in and I don't see me needing anything different.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/IMG_2362.sized.jpg)
Pretty shortblock!

I spent the requisite week lapping the valves installing different shims to get the lash to within spec.  Always fun (NOT!):
(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/IMG_2361.sized.jpg)

If you have been reading, you will remember '90MSM had the Mazdaspeed engine harness stuffed in on top of the entire NA6 harness including such nonsensical wires for Airbags, AC, and door buzzers plus all the 1.6 engine wires no longer needed.  In December, I started cutting.  13 pounds of wires later...

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/IMG_2290.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/IMG_2270.sized.jpg)

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/IMG_2269.sized.jpg)

Armed with an NA6 and MSM wiring diagram, a diagram for the Adaptronic, a set of wire cutters and a soldering iron, I paired down the entire harness to a trio of 12 port Molex connectors.  Now, I can split the engine harness from the ECU, the ECU from the car and all of the above from the dash and swithes.  Things are simplified and everything works so far.  Out all the wires I only made one small error with the NA6 fan switch that was easily corrected.

It took months, but I got both cars back in the garage.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/IMG_2436.sized.jpg)

And finally back on the dyno.

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/MoreBuildPics/11666141_853314821405801_2264323959561847251_n.jpg)

We developed a miss near the end of the dyno session.  It turned out to be the MAP sensor which promptly failed at the track the next morning before I even had my helmet on.  I didn't turn a lap but I've got my fingers crossed for early July!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on July 01, 2015, 01:39:21 PM
Congrats on getting everything back together!  It's looking very good.  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on July 01, 2015, 02:53:46 PM
Is the MAP sensor internal to the Adaptronics  ECU???


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on July 02, 2015, 07:40:15 AM
Is the MAP sensor internal to the Adaptronics  ECU???
No, it is external - just a garden variety GM 3 bar.  The schedule at the track day was unusual and by the time I diagnosed the problem, I had missed two sessions.  If I had found one locally, I would have missed the 3rd session at least.  Not going out allowed me to make a no-nonsense appeal to the organizer for a raincheck.  If I had gone out for the last session or two, it would have clouded that request.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: KaiserM715 on February 10, 2016, 10:57:44 PM
Read through the whole thread and really enjoyed it.  Any updates?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on February 11, 2016, 07:58:34 PM
Read through the whole thread and really enjoyed it.  Any updates?

Not many but since my issues last summer, I discovered the original Adaptronic ECU I have been using since 2009 finally died and I suspect it was contributing/causing all of my issues.  I sourced a replacement since I had zero interest in rewiring the whole project again and the car seems to be behaving now based on my one 2-3 mile test drive before I put everything away for the winter.  I'll know more when I get on the track later in the spring.



Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: Bassparrott on February 11, 2016, 09:56:05 PM
Great thread. I really enjoyed it also. I may have to start looking for a track car!


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on August 30, 2016, 06:21:14 AM
It's been way too long for updates on this.  The delay was due to having no really good news in 2015 and for the first half of 2016.  The car was a crap show of problems that culminated in a complete failure as I was pulling out of the garage to load the trailer for MRLS2015 last September.  That thread is commemorated here:  http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,31728.0.html (http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,31728.0.html)

The MSM was a champ and shocked a few caged track beasts over the course of the weekend.  I pretty much shelved '90MSM for the first part of the winter but at some point, I started digging back in and figured out the issue.  Here is the abridged version starting about 14 months ago:

The first sign of trouble was the miss at the end of the dyno and subsequent failure at the track mentioned in the 6/29/15 post below.  I don't remember all of the details but a new MAP sensor got things running better.  A wire on the IACV broke at some point and during this period, the car wasn't idling particularly well either.  My next trip out, I dropped a valve which ended the day.  I don't have a lot of excuses or explanation - I must have left one of the keepers slightly out of whack.  I pulled the head and swapped in the spare without much excitement.  The machine shop fixed the original which was back in action sooner than I had hoped as you will soon read...

The next trip out (I think - last summer of was blur of bad memories I'd rather forget) I developed a strange misfire that would cause the motor to vibrate horribly and coolant to spray on the windshield.  A full discussion of this is probably beyond the scope of this thread but in short, I believe ECU was going haywire in random circumstances and causing the engine to fire at strange points which forced coolant out a suspect head gasket.  Compression was fine and I tried some things to hopefully fix the misfire.  That day was cut short and I ventured out on my next attempt where the misfire continued randomly and continued the coolant on the windshield.  When that wasn't happening, the car was running fantastic but I resisted the temptation to finish the day.  I later determined that was a loose crank trigger wheel.  Despite blue loctite, it had come loose but at least we found the problem, right?

I got back to the garage and pulled the head finding that there was indeed a coolant path out past the HG.  I cleaned up the block, set a new head gasket and placed the original head that had been repaired after the dropped valve.  This yielded balanced compression numbers and the car stared up but didn't run well.  I was still chasing an electrical gremlin even though the trigger wheel was back in place.  I turned 9 laps at The Ridge Motorsports Park on 9/26/15 - just days before leaving for Laguna.  I don't remember what happened to cut the day short, but I thought I had fixed it because I don't remember thrashing in the garage leading up to the depature.  I got all the way to the morning of the load - started the car, let it idle for a few minutes and then, shifting into reverse... it died.  That was the last electricity to flow correctly through that ECU harness.

At some point last fall, I found another Adaptroic 420c thinking that was the problem.  I went this route because a) used 420cs are pretty cheap and b) it would be the easiest plug and play fix if it worked.  I plugged it in and the car started right up... for a minute and then died just like it had before Laguna.  Hot Damn!!! The problem must be in the harness.  That adapter harness had been around since I started messing with ECUs in 2009 so it made sense that it was failing.  I took a look at the PCB abomination and realized I would never find a clean one and Adaptronic didn't make them any more.  Fortunately, the ECU I had bought came with an NB1 adapter harness and while it didn't fit my engine harness, it had the female ends that go into the ECU.  I bought a generic NB2 harness and started soldering.

Using the original harness for inspiration in addition to the Adaptronic schematic and the MSM wiring diagram, I painstakingly wired up a new harness one wire at a time.  When I found two wires I thought I should join, I checked them for continuity on the original harness.  Near the end of the process, I found the lead to the Cam Angle Sensor on the old board that didn't have continuity... then it did... then it didn't...  The wires were correct, but the trace on the board was broken.  Eureka I thought!!!!!  The whole problem is solved!!!!  That explained a lot of the symptoms but I was very close to being done with the new adapter harness so I finished it up.  This CPS trace was another false breakthrough... or was it?

I plugged the new harness in and the car started right up.  It didn't idle very well but you will recall the IACV was suspect so I didn't worry... until the car shut off spontaneously mid idle.  Nuts.  I actually said a 4 letter word a little stronger than 'nuts' but forum policy suggests I don't transcribe it here.  I tried the other 420c and the car would not fire at all.  At this point, I considered shipping the car to FM or Trackspeed or KO Racing or anywhere else with a credit card and a note taped to the windshield but I didn't.  I already had a brand new Adaptronic Select ECU I got from Andy Down Under back when I was first building '90MSM that I never installed.  I had planned to put it in the street car at some point since it was truly Plug-n-Play but hadn't got around to it.  What should I do?

Clearly, the car has a gremlin somewhere so I wasn't going to do a damn thing with this engine harness.  I bought a new complete MSM harness and started converting the wiring.  Doing the new harness from scratch gave me some time to get acquainted with the only complicated part of the process - The X-04 connector.  The MSM engine harness (and likely all NB harnesses) have 3 plugs at the ECU that don't really get modified and the X-04 plug that interfaces it with the rest of the car's wiring harness.  It has 42 wires in it and about a dozen of them need to be wired into whatever your are doing to get the engine to run.  Here is a thread I put over at MT to discuss my frustrating progress:

http://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/wire-fn-wire-hoping-turn-angry-lap-september-89208/ (http://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/wire-fn-wire-hoping-turn-angry-lap-september-89208/)

* Use caution posting on MiataTurbo.  They have the temperament of a pack of feral cats and don't take kindly to new people if they perceive a question to be beneath the level of the group...

I got the new harness in and 4 power leads, 3 ground points and 6 'other' items (neutral switch, fuel pump, etc.) wired up.  I got on the Adaptronic forums and got some help converting my 420c map to the Select and plugged it in.  Backfires... lots of cranking and backfires.  We started the long and painful process of figuring out what was still wrong with the car.  Sensors passed a sanity check, trigger lights were blinking but I couldn't even check base timing because the car wouldn't fire enough to run for even a minute.  Mark Gool from Adaptronic support traded emails with me every day for a week or two and was an absolute rockstar.  A screwdriver and 'Let's check everything' finally got '90MSM off the operating table and back to the track.

Checking the triggers, we saw a good crank trigger but the cam trigger was still acting strange.  I pulled the CAS out of the car and waved a screwdriver in front of it and everything blinked fine.  With it back in the cam cover, nothing consistent.  It was then the sinking feeling hit me.  I took the cam cover off and found that the nubs on the intake cam were on the exhaust cam - I had put the cam gears on backwards.  Can you believe it?  I sure didn't...   :shockeyes:

Back up to the previous summer when I popped the other head back on - That was when I made the mistake but the car ran after that point.  It turned laps on the track after that point.  What the hell?  It appears the 420c has a failsafe mode Mark didn't even know about that ignores the cam sensor if it isn't there.  Going all the way back to the first hiccup on the dyno in June 2015, my issue was some derivative of a cam angle sensor problem - either a dry socket confusing the ECU, the missing signal plus the dry socket killing the car and finally the new ECU refusing to fire without a clean CAS signal.  Like I said earlier... Nuts...  If the car had failed to start that day after putting the new HG on, I would have found my error in under an hour.  The fact that it started and ran pretty well completely through me off the trail of thinking about a mechanical problem.  Nuts...

Mark and I had a few more adventures setting up a 36-2 trigger wheel since the 4 tooth one cobbled onto the ATI damper had come loose all those months earlier and I wanted something better anyway but after that, I went out to the track and had my first successful day in '90MSM since October 2014.  There were no lap records but also no electrical issues.  I did have a few comical things happen I'll skip for today but in short, '90MSM is back to full speed ready to make mischief at MRLS in October.  Who's coming out to play?


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on August 30, 2016, 10:24:19 AM
Wow Brian, you certainly have more perseverance that I would have.   Either the CC would have come into use or the lighter and lighter fluid!!  :)


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on August 30, 2016, 11:14:16 PM
The fact that the street car made 10 consecutive grids at MRLS and saw 10 consecutive checkered flags and I didn't touch it with a wrench all weekend apart from rotating the tires had me seriously reconsidering my desire to go 10 seconds a lap faster...


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on August 31, 2016, 02:29:35 AM
Holy smokes.....that's quiet a saga!  Glad you got it working.  I might have throw in the towel.


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: millsj on August 31, 2016, 02:50:02 AM
Tell the truth-how tempted have you been to take the M5 to the track just to see what it would do?  :lol:


Title: Re: Presenting '90MSM!
Post by: mr_hyde on August 31, 2016, 03:08:55 AM
author=millsj

Quote
Holy smokes.....that's quiet a saga!  Glad you got it working.  I might have throw in the towel.
Tell the truth-how tempted have you been to take the M5 to the track just to see what it would do?  :lol:

Honest Truth - Not the slightest bit.  Reason:  

I don't have the budget to get it fully sorted for track use.  Street maintenance and track/race maintenance are two very different levels of prep.  I have no interest in dealing with consumables approximately 4x the cost of the miata and if something serious were to break, I'd be daily in the MSM for the foreseeable future.  That said, the car is psychotically fast in a straight line and no slouch in the curves considering its mass.  Some might remember I had a B5 S4 4.2 for a while.  That car couldn't shine the M5's tail pipes.  That and it's soooooo sexy!

(http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/Falcon/IMG_3384.jpg)