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Supporting sponsors => Hydra Support and Questions => Topic started by: StackSilverson on August 30, 2015, 10:45:17 PM



Title: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on August 30, 2015, 10:45:17 PM
Hey guys,

The Hydra and Injector Install went smoothly!  Thanks to your guys' great advice of course.

Couple of things to note:

- Couldn't get the stock post cat O2 sensor off the DP.  It's stuck as a mother.  We just cut it and tied the remained of the cord up with zip ties.

- Car started up fine.  The idle was rich at like 11ish but as I understand it the ECU will autotune itself and correct this.

- The directions said to open our map and calibrate the throttle position sensor, but after cranking up the MSM and testing the TPS on the laptop it was dead on.

-  Still haven't pushed it yet since it's been a constant downpour here in FL for 2 days.  I can already feel more power though and a much smoother torque curve.


Next is tuning.  So my choices are three.  1) Have FM do it remotely.  Keith said they would do it for free which sounds pretty sweet 2) Have Ken Hill do it for me.  He charges like 80 bucks and hour which sounds like a lot but all I have seen is very good things from him 3) Have a local guy do it.  His business is called Mase Engineering www.maseengineering.com .  He's supposed to be amazing.  Probably expensive.

Which one would you guys do?  2 of those are remote.  Does that mean they'll be able to smooth out the idle blips or can that only be done by a tuner in person.

Thanks guys


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on August 30, 2015, 10:54:17 PM
# 1 or #2

Unless your local amazing guy knows the Hydra and Miatas inside out I would avoid him.

BTW, Ken Hill is a tuning wizard and 80 bucks an hour is cheap.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: rotorglow on August 30, 2015, 11:09:26 PM
Congrats!  The rear O2 sensor isn't hurting anyone, and as I hinted earlier, I'm honestly surprised they still suggest taking it out. People in OBD states need it when inspection time comes around, and its impact in non-OBD states is negligible.

I'd go with FM or Ken also, though I will say I'm not sure how a remote tuner can get much done on stabilizing idle. The cool thing is that you can do that part yourself. We all have some numbers that are pretty stable, and it's really easy for you to punch them in, and see how they work in real time (without a remote tuner plugging numbers in and you needing to describe how they work).

There's nothing particularly magical about how those values work; and they're all nicely described in the context-sensitive help. 


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on August 30, 2015, 11:56:35 PM
Cool guys.  I'll take your advice and stick with 1 and 2.  Contacting Jeremy at FM on Monday.

And what should the boost be turned to at the base map?


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: rotorglow on August 31, 2015, 12:26:03 AM

And what should the boost be turned to at the base map?

I'm sure the base map is fine up to whatever max boost target specified in the map itself. I think mine was at 12 out of the box.   Ten or 11 should keep you out of the max boost fuel cut.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: thomsoad on August 31, 2015, 03:06:21 AM
Since the remote is free I would start with that even tho mine was good right out of the box.
IMO the best tune is when you take it to an actual shop to have it done.
When I had my "stock" Hydra I drove it for a good 2-3 weeks before driving out to LA area to have mine done.
So I wouldn't worry about any issues if you are planning on driving from FL to PA (I believe that's where Kens shop is).
Just an FYI: when I talked to Jeremy about Hydra tuning shops he did mention a place in TX which would be closer to you.
I didn't go to them so I cant comment about them...but since Jeremy did recommend them they may be worth looking into.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on August 31, 2015, 05:11:47 AM
Since the remote is free I would start with that even tho mine was good right out of the box.
IMO the best tune is when you take it to an actual shop to have it done.
When I had my "stock" Hydra I drove it for a good 2-3 weeks before driving out to LA area to have mine done.
So I wouldn't worry about any issues if you are planning on driving from FL to PA (I believe that's where Kens shop is).
Just an FYI: when I talked to Jeremy about Hydra tuning shops he did mention a place in TX which would be closer to you.
I didn't go to them so I cant comment about them...but since Jeremy did recommend them they may be worth looking into.

That is some really great advice.  Here's my plan as of now.  Call Jeremy at FM.  Have FM tune my car remotely for free.  Once they have it as good as they can I'll hit up Ken and see if I can get him to really put everything together.  Once that's done, I'll take it to my local tuner (who's proficient with Hydra ECUs) to clean up the idle and have it dynoed.

What do you guys think about that?

And Jacksonville to PA would honestly be a nightmare.  I love this car but it's just not that comfortable to me for long trips.  The TEIN Street Advance coilovers that thomsoad and I have are really stiff.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: thomsoad on August 31, 2015, 10:00:09 AM

I love this car but it's just not that comfortable to me for long trips.  The TEIN Street Advance coilovers that thomsoad and I have are really stiff.

Do you already have them on the softest setting?


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on August 31, 2015, 01:05:33 PM

I love this car but it's just not that comfortable to me for long trips.  The TEIN Street Advance coilovers that thomsoad and I have are really stiff.

Do you already have them on the softest setting?

Yeah man it's awful.  All the way soft and I feel everything.  Think I put them in wrong


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: thomsoad on August 31, 2015, 02:48:49 PM

I love this car but it's just not that comfortable to me for long trips.  The TEIN Street Advance coilovers that thomsoad and I have are really stiff.

Do you already have them on the softest setting?

Yeah man it's awful.  All the way soft and I feel everything.  Think I put them in wrong

Everyone has there own preferences but the Teins for me are much more comfortable then the stock setup.
Its also the general consensus...so I am leaning towards you putting them in incorrectly.
Might want to have that checked out before crossing off long trips in the MSM or getting something else.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: rotorglow on August 31, 2015, 03:26:18 PM
Don't know what your spring rates are, but remember that setting dampers to "soft" may mean they're not able to control the movement of the spring. That can make things bounce and jiggle, the bump stops might be hit harder/more often, and the ride can feel worse.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: BreezyRacer on August 31, 2015, 04:03:56 PM
Are you riding around on the bump stops?


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on August 31, 2015, 06:45:22 PM
I honestly don't know if I'm riding the stops or not.

I had a buddy put it in and it very well may be put in incorrectly.  I'm considering pulling the suspension and trying to put it in again myself.

If I attached some pics would that help you guys diagnose the problrm? 


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: millsj on August 31, 2015, 07:13:06 PM
Please attach pics before you pull it all apart.  I bet we can save you some time.   :)  What ride height do you have?  Is it really low?


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on August 31, 2015, 08:19:43 PM
Please attach pics before you pull it all apart.  I bet we can save you some time.   :)  What ride height do you have?  Is it really low?

Naa it's not too low I don't think.

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p768/LOWNskater52/Mobile%20Uploads/20150824_221742_zpsp4hqkbc9.jpg) (http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/LOWNskater52/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150824_221742_zpsp4hqkbc9.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on August 31, 2015, 08:34:44 PM
I don't think isn't a good suspension tuning tool.  Measure from the wheel well arch to the center of the hub front and back and let us know what the ride height is.

As you have been already told softening the shock doesn't soften the ride.  Springs/ride height are what affect the stiffness of the ride.  The shock setting affect the handling under load more than anything else.  Sometimes stiffer springs ride better than soft ones as the keep you off the bump stops on the street.  My 450/300 GC coil-overs road way better than my stock springs even though they were way stiffer.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: millsj on August 31, 2015, 08:44:22 PM
When you have a chance, pull a front and rear tire and post some pics of the shocks.  Ride height doesn't look like it would cause you any issues. 


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: Chrisbee on September 01, 2015, 01:54:58 AM
On the tuning side of things, I think that your plan of attack is exactly what I'd do. Get FM to get it pretty close so that when you do go to Ken Hill, it should be at a good spot (most likely on the conservative side) for him to get it tuned in more quickly (and more aggressive). Then take it to your local guy for some tweaking and to get it dynoed.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on September 03, 2015, 12:04:13 AM
TUNING UPDATE: Spoke with Jeremy at FM.  Got his email with what he needs.  Gave him maps for two 4th gear WOT pulls, two 1st to 2nd to 3rd pulls, warm idle, running at 40mph constant, and some maps for a problem I've been having.  I've been having some jerk shifts.  I'll quick shift and the car like hesitates before it kicks in and goes.  Jeremy said it might be a "lean tip in or something".  Not sure but sent him some maps of it happening.

He asked for my left bank long teem fuel trim table but I couldn't find it on the program.  Anyone know where that is?


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on September 03, 2015, 12:08:57 AM
SUSPENSION UPDATE: The suspension is too firm for sure.  I know the difference between firm and soft.  It's firm.

It's unbearable though.  I'm gonna email TEIN tomorrow and see what they say.  I'm also gonna pull the wheels off this weekend and take some pics for you Guys.  It's priority number one right now though.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: rotorglow on September 03, 2015, 01:02:39 AM

He asked for my left bank long teem fuel trim table but I couldn't find it on the program.  Anyone know where that is?

With your laptop connected to the Hydra and the key in "on", go to Tuning Maps -> Closed Loop -> Left Bank Long Term Fuel Trim.

You're going to want to get familiar with the the online help docs.  Help menu -> Help Topics is the full list of everything.  If you just choose Help -> Help, you'll get context-sensitive help for the map or dialog you're currently in (not so helpful if you don't know where you need to be).

Hydra help used to be absolutely awful, and now contains absolutely everything (though there's no free-text search).


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on September 03, 2015, 01:09:39 AM
Thanks Roto!

Also too, Jeremy said to set the psi at 10 and that the stock turbo losses efficiency after that.  I thought it was 12? I know Ken hill had a guy tune his to 14psi.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: thomsoad on September 03, 2015, 03:20:47 AM
Thanks Roto!

Also too, Jeremy said to set the psi at 10 and that the stock turbo losses efficiency after that.  I thought it was 12? I know Ken hill had a guy tune his to 14psi.

The general consensus is 12.
But Shawn Church had mine up to 16.. its all about having a good/great tune.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: Canyonfive on September 13, 2015, 10:04:06 PM
Thanks Roto!

Also too, Jeremy said to set the psi at 10 and that the stock turbo losses efficiency after that.  I thought it was 12? I know Ken hill had a guy tune his to 14psi.

The general consensus is 12.
But Shawn Church had mine up to 16.. its all about having a good/great tune.

Was that your stock turbo? and if so what did you end up with HP/Torque wise. I have yet to get up there for him to tune it.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: StackSilverson on September 20, 2015, 04:17:47 AM
Getting the MSM dyno'ed tomorrow.  Will post results.


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: thomsoad on September 25, 2015, 04:07:32 AM
Thanks Roto!

Also too, Jeremy said to set the psi at 10 and that the stock turbo losses efficiency after that.  I thought it was 12? I know Ken hill had a guy tune his to 14psi.

The general consensus is 12.
But Shawn Church had mine up to 16.. its all about having a good/great tune.

Was that your stock turbo? and if so what did you end up with HP/Torque wise. I have yet to get up there for him to tune it.

Yes that was the stock turbo. It was actually around 16.36 if I remember correctly.
I got a thread somewhere posting my dyno sheet.
But I think it was 222HP/234lb...give or take 1-2 points either direction.
The Blouche tuned to what you see now.
I very highly recommend him...great guy and knows his stuff.
Not in the best neighborhood tho. :)


Title: Re: Hydra Success fully Installed! Now Tuning...
Post by: TheBigChill on September 25, 2015, 12:45:22 PM
Thanks Roto!

Also too, Jeremy said to set the psi at 10 and that the stock turbo losses efficiency after that.  I thought it was 12? I know Ken hill had a guy tune his to 14psi.

The general consensus is 12.
But Shawn Church had mine up to 16.. its all about having a good/great tune.

The best way to determine this is by using the actual IHI supplied efficiency island map for this turbo.  Last I looked, it's relatively efficient all the way to ~12psi.  Peak efficiency was around 8psi.  A good tune does not affect a compressor's efficiency, but will instead help your car cope with the effects of pushing beyond peak efficiency   :)

If you have meth or a great intercooler, and are willing to overwork the turbo, boosting beyond peak efficiency is ok.  However, avoid being like the VW guys (APR, Revo, etc) who boost tiny K03 turbos to 20psi on their off-the-shelf tunes  ::)