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Supporting sponsors => Flying Miata Questions and Support => Topic started by: Keith on May 22, 2006, 08:12:18 PM



Title: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on May 22, 2006, 08:12:18 PM
Since we get a lot of questions on a recommended order of modification, we've added a guide to our site.

Flyin' Miata MSM upgrade path (https://www.flyinmiata.com/miata-performance-parts/msm-2004-05-turbo/msm-turbo-packages.html)

The first 4 can be shuffled around somewhat, but that's the order we think works best. Questions? Give us a call.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Microwaved Bacon on May 22, 2006, 10:22:12 PM
That was my flight path anyway! Now I know for sure it's a winner.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: k-lea on May 23, 2006, 01:01:01 AM
tehehe..


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: OOM on May 23, 2006, 04:18:27 PM
THat would have saved me lost of research time when I first got the car.....pretty kewl..... thumup


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: DarkSide on May 23, 2006, 06:55:49 PM
I guess I'm ready for the turbo upgrade.   reddevil


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: mark13 on May 23, 2006, 08:23:23 PM
Darkside if you do the turbo upgrade keeps us posted,this is a little over my head but I want to give it a try but not till I see what all is invlolved..


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: 2004TGrayMS on May 23, 2006, 09:03:48 PM
As far as I am concerned, next comes the DP  :mrgreen:

I have my RB Turbo exhaust and will do the hydra only If I really feel the need for me. The Intake alone makes this car a different beast!

Of course I did upgrade to the GFB recirc valve as a trade in to my noisy GFB BOV


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: j37033 on May 24, 2006, 03:08:35 AM
All of the above, except the turbo.  That and gears will be this winter's project.
DD


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: 04VRMSMX5 on May 24, 2006, 01:08:19 PM
I guess I'm ready for the turbo upgrade. reddevil

I second that! I have everything else, but my MSM is a daily driver, so I'll need some time off to do the turbo swap. I'd love to switch to a ball bearing center section at the same time.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: wrathchild on May 24, 2006, 02:26:39 PM
Why no suspension and brake upgrades??

 


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Marlon on May 24, 2006, 02:53:42 PM
i'm done  :beer:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on May 24, 2006, 03:40:25 PM
Why no suspension and brake upgrades??

 

Because they're not Mazdaspeed specific and they depend on the application. Making more power is an easy progression that is much the same for everyone. The correct suspension and brakes dpends on what you're doing with the car.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: KingSpeed on May 25, 2006, 06:55:44 AM
Why no suspension and brake upgrades??

 

Because they're not Mazdaspeed specific and they depend on the application. Making more power is an easy progression that is much the same for everyone. The correct suspension and brakes dpends on what you're doing with the car.

I plan to hopefully do the turbo upgrade with coilovers this fall.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: rigby on May 25, 2006, 08:57:55 PM
Since we get a lot of questions on a recommended order of modification, we've added a guide to our site.

Flyin' Miata MSM upgrade path (http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/MSM_upgrades.php)

The first 4 can be shuffled around somewhat, but that's the order we think works best. Questions? Give us a call.

Nice list!  Might want to consider recommending some instrumentation too (maybe as step 0)... I've always thought it was a good idea to have a boost, fuel pressure and O2 guage in place before modding.  Being able to monitor those instruments after adding a mod helped me diagnose problems quickly and has even saved my motor on more than one occasion.  :shock:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: wrathchild on July 05, 2006, 05:24:59 AM
I had a question on the order in that list

1. I agree completely.
2-3-4 is what I am curious about. I thought the stock FMIC was a major problem area? Shouldnt it be upgraded as soon as you do the intake kit and are running more boost? Or is it not really an issue until you get into the exh system as well?

I would have thought it would go
1. intake kit
2. FMIC
3. some part of the exh
4. other part of the exh

Basically what I am asking, is at what point is the stock FMIC a problem? Like I said, I was under the impression it was a problem on even a stock MSM(this coming from what I read off FMs website)



Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on July 05, 2006, 03:50:05 PM
2-3-4 can be done in any order. In our case, we'll usually change the IC first because otherwise we'll never be able to get a clean dyno run. I chose to put the IC at number 4 because it's a less noticeable difference than the big power gains that come from the ones that preceed it. But honestly, the first four are pretty much interchangeable. The downpipe is a major problem area. The exhaust, less so. The IC doesn't make a peak power gain but it prevents the car from loosing power and the type of use will come in to play here.

At what point is the stock IC a problem? As soon as the car leaves the production line.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: cayenne on December 22, 2006, 09:53:08 PM


Of course I did upgrade to the GFB recirc valve as a trade in to my noisy GFB BOV

Can you elaborate on why you did this swap? I'm sure it is a noob question....but, I'm about to start down the path to the FM Big Enchilada upgrade, and was going to go the GFB BOV route....what are the advantages/disadvantages of the recirc vs the GFB BOV?

Thanks in advance...... :roll:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: eshea on December 23, 2006, 12:38:43 AM
The most obvious "advantage" is that you don't hear the recirculating valve.  With the vent to atmo valve you'll hear a "psshhhh" every time you shift in boost.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: jerseymiata on December 23, 2006, 03:54:33 AM
The most obvious "advantage" is that you don't hear the recirculating valve.  With the vent to atmo valve you'll hear a "psshhhh" every time you shift in boost.

I just got the full intake kit (with the recirc valve) this week.  I also had a chance to drive eshea's car (and he drove mine post-kit installation) so we can both make an objective comparison.  In mine, with the recirc valve, I have to disagree with eshea -- you do hear it from inside the car -- it makes somewhat of a "froooo!" sound, just like the sound of blowing hard through a straw -- but it's much quieter to someone observing from outside than the car, compared to the vent-to-atmosphere valve.  On eshea's car the VTA sounds like a pistol being fired; it's more of a far-off "pop" to my ears than the recirc.  I hope that helps!   8)


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: eshea on December 23, 2006, 04:34:47 AM
To clarify....with either valve, you will hear the air being sucked in and it can produce a bit of drone while cruising on the highway.  Again, that's more a function of the intake itself and not the valve you choose.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: jerseymiata on December 23, 2006, 06:15:41 AM
>>> you do hear it from inside the car -- it makes somewhat of a "froooo!" sound, just like the sound of blowing hard through a straw

But I * was * talking about the BOV, not the intake itself.  There still is a sound.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: eshea on December 23, 2006, 09:14:57 AM
Hrm....didn't notice.  Okay then.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: wrathchild on December 31, 2006, 08:55:02 AM
I had a question on the order in that list

1. I agree completely.
2-3-4 is what I am curious about. I thought the stock FMIC was a major problem area? Shouldnt it be upgraded as soon as you do the intake kit and are running more boost? Or is it not really an issue until you get into the exh system as well?

I would have thought it would go
1. intake kit
2. FMIC
3. some part of the exh
4. other part of the exh

Basically what I am asking, is at what point is the stock FMIC a problem? Like I said, I was under the impression it was a problem on even a stock MSM(this coming from what I read off FMs website)



Knowing what I know about the MSM now, I would do things in a complete different order (and I am kicking myself for not doing it this way to begin with)

1. Hydra/wideband/knock sensor
2. FMIC
3. Intake
4. injectors
5. exh(full system)


I HAD the money for the hydra, and instead of buying it, I bought the intake/fullexh/FMIC/rollbar.

I should have bought the hydra before anything else.   
I agree with what FM told me when i was calling them incessantly asking questions back then (that I wouldnt see much of any gain, maybe 10whp peak)  However with how incredibly bad the factory ECU is in the lower end an midrange, I think driveability wise there would have been huge gains.


Moral of the story, if you have a stock MSM, and about 2k, buy a hydra/wideband(so it can auto fueltune)/knock sensor.   

Then worry about the rest. The car wont make as much power as that 2k could buy you, but you start with a much better foundation and a MUCH better running car than that 2k will net you otherwise.

Now I am running another EM system that has a TON of limits and compromises, which I will be selling in a year or so (maybe a bit less) and saving to buy what I should have bought in the first place.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: mprhead5 on December 31, 2006, 08:26:21 PM
dosn't the new hydra for the MSM come with the wideband for autotune? I thought it was the older hydra that you had to add the wideband to. is that correct?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: wrathchild on December 31, 2006, 08:55:44 PM
yeah it all comes together now. No injects in the standard package but thats ok. 


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: mprhead5 on December 31, 2006, 11:00:14 PM
as long as I don't have to shell out anouther 400.00 bucks on top of having to buy a laptop and injects and a guage its all good


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: wrathchild on January 01, 2007, 04:26:06 PM
And its not "the new hydra" or "the older hydra"

They are just selling it as a package now.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: LateralSpeed on July 13, 2007, 02:05:10 AM
2-3-4 can be done in any order. In our case, we'll usually change the IC first because otherwise we'll never be able to get a clean dyno run. I chose to put the IC at number 4 because it's a less noticeable difference than the big power gains that come from the ones that preceed it. But honestly, the first four are pretty much interchangeable. The downpipe is a major problem area. The exhaust, less so. The IC doesn't make a peak power gain but it prevents the car from loosing power and the type of use will come in to play here.

At what point is the stock IC a problem? As soon as the car leaves the production line.

I've read that with the stock IC stock MSM's can lose as much as 14hp just to heat soak. Now, with that in mind, if I go with the I/BC/DP/E first and then the FMIC last is there anything I should worry about reliability wise? I mean, should I worry about damaging my engine due to excessive heat or anything with that installed and only running at 10psi for about a month before I get the FMIC?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on July 13, 2007, 12:57:14 PM
You won't damage your engine due to excessive intake temperatures. The ECU will pull timing due to the hotter air to prevent detonation.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: LateralSpeed on July 13, 2007, 03:37:54 PM
Ok, thanks for being patient with the newb questions... but when it comes to FI engines unfortunately I am a n00b lol. You said in your email that you were just waiting for the manual boost controller to send the intake, do you know if they came in yet or if the intake will be sent out today?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on July 13, 2007, 07:16:32 PM
This isn't really the place to answer detailed questions about individual orders, as I don't check the forum every day. I've been at the track all morning, I don't know what's going on.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: LateralSpeed on July 13, 2007, 08:02:10 PM
Ok.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: turboroadster on August 15, 2007, 02:52:12 PM
I'm about to order from FM...  but can't set my mind about what path to take..

I'd really like to set the rev limit higher, but what else is the major pros about starting with Hydra...?

I first thought I should do what the guide says,
but maybe the power of the car is nice enough at the beginning?

I'm seeking better acceleration first of all, but driveability is a good second...

Any thoughts from you who have been there?

Does this path make sense? :

1. Hydra
2. IC
3. Intake (complete)
4. Downpipe and Exhaust

(I may do 2,3 and 4 as number 2...)

What gauges should one have, and where do people place them?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on August 15, 2007, 02:57:05 PM
Obviously the guide isn't set in stone. The Hydra will let you raise your rev limit, will make the whole car smoother and will improve throttle response. The reason it's not #1 on the list is that it's very expensive relative to the other choices, and you still have a restrictive intake and exhaust. If you're planning to build further, you can certainly install the Hydra first.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: KingSpeed on August 15, 2007, 05:32:13 PM
  Or you can do 2 easy steps.

  1. hydra
  2. FMII turbo system  :lol:

  If I had a chance to do it all over again I would have done this and called it a day.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: awdieee on August 15, 2007, 06:11:41 PM
  Or you can do 2 easy steps.

  1. hydra
  2. FMII turbo system  :lol:

  If I had a chance to do it all over again I would have done this and called it a day.

Well said!


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on August 15, 2007, 08:35:34 PM
Boy, you guys laughed at me when I gave that as a legitimate option a few years back.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: KingSpeed on August 15, 2007, 08:40:38 PM


  Its more of a legitimate option now that we found out how much of a POS turbo we really had compared to other turbo factory cars.  Besides, I would rather run the new kits from either you guys or begi since their have alot of improvements and more choices for the turbo kits.  A couple of years back the MSM was new and it took time to see what problems would come up years later.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: turboroadster on August 15, 2007, 09:05:38 PM
Where I live, the "state car-supervision" is very conservative...
so to build an insane power-miata would just make me a nervous wreck
...after beeing afraid of getting caught all the time...

...not to mention what it would cost to actually get caught...

just to mention another thing...   an MSM cost around 44K - 47K over here...
almost half of it is taxes...   the rest is shipping and stuff, and the price for the car in the US

thats the laws in Norway...    but then...  we have lots of free social benefits

Anyway...   when completed the Big Enchilada...  I think it's more than enough power...


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: 2004TGrayMS on August 31, 2007, 11:15:21 AM
Keith, lets say I was ready to go the Big Enchilada route? I already have the full intake , GFB Recirc along with a Hallman . Do you have anyone you work with in the NY, NJ, CT area that can install it for me>?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on August 31, 2007, 11:33:08 AM
Do you have anyone you work with in the NY, NJ, CT area that can install it for me>?

Look here

http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/installers.asp

Ken Hill is an ex-FM employee living in PA now

Seth used to work for Bill when Bill ran Dealer Alternative in NJ before it became FM in Colorado


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: kvolkan on October 27, 2007, 10:00:01 PM
Hi Keith,

I am a new MSM owner and I have been following this thread closely and would like to upgrade my car. My big concern is that I live in California and worry about having to undo everything for smog checks. Do you have an upgrade path for CA MSM owners. Any chance some of the stuff in the kit will get CARB approval?

By the way I had a great demonstration why the IC would be a good to have. We had a couple of 90+ days last week (with the fires and all). It felt like the turbo wasn't working at all. Yesterday the temps dropped. I got up early in the am and took the car out. What a difference - felt like a real turbo! (BTW what is the deal with the stock tires? - It felt like I was running on the rims for the first 5 minutes until they warmed up).

Kevin


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on October 29, 2007, 02:15:38 PM
We do not have any plans to seek CARB exemption for any of the MSM parts. All of the visible parts are quickly and easily removed. If you install a Hydra, you will have to remove that along with the larger injectors unless you can find a smog tech who is willing to test the tailpipe emissions only.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: turboroadster on October 29, 2007, 03:20:07 PM
We do not have any plans to seek CARB exemption for any of the MSM parts. All of the visible parts are quickly and easily removed. If you install a Hydra, you will have to remove that along with the larger injectors unless you can find a smog tech who is willing to test the tailpipe emissions only.

In Norway, they only test the emissions  by putting a sensor in the tail-pipe,
does this mean we do not have the same testing as in California (or other states in north America?)

how's the testing done "over there" ?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on October 29, 2007, 03:27:23 PM
Emmisions testing varies from state to state and city to city in the US.  Where I live in South Carolina we have no testing at all.  In California they have very strict rules about modifying the cars without using approved parts (CARB).



Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: MSMemt on October 29, 2007, 06:14:31 PM
(http://Where I live in South Carolina we have no testing at all.)

 >:(


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: yahtah on December 14, 2007, 06:27:27 AM
So why does FM choose to not get their mods CARB approved? Weren't most of the MSM's sold in California? What can we do to help get these CARB approved? Let's go mod by mod about the difficulty of approval and see where we can go here. I'd start with the FM O2 mod and go from there.

JMHO and seeing what support is out there.
Cal MSM stock.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: KingSpeed on December 14, 2007, 06:29:37 AM



    Because its a very expensive to go through the carb process and the profits are minimal.  Its not like a honda where you can make a ton of cash.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on December 14, 2007, 11:23:54 AM
It's expensive, there are only 5000 of the cars total, it takes a lot of time.  The other makers that have CARB parts for the car probably linked the CARB testing to an existing model and didn't have to do the complete thing.  And why do you think most of these cars are in CA??


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on December 14, 2007, 03:16:15 PM
Very expensive and very time consuming, yes. The newer the car, the more expensive it is. Heck, Racing Beat found they couldn't even get a stock 2001 to pass the tests!

The Hydra would never get approved.
The O2 mod would probably not make it through either, I suspect that behavior is programmed into the car for emissions purposes. However, an O2 mod is pretty much undetectable.
Intake we could probably get through without a boost controller.
Intercooler should not be a problem.
Exhaust post-cat doesn't matter, so consider it approved.
Downpipe, I don't know. I don't know what's involved with aftermarket catalytic converters and CARB.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: LateralSpeed on December 15, 2007, 05:16:18 AM
Man am I lucky I live in Florida! Two cars ago I had the exhaust running dump right out of the headers(no cats/resonators ect)... loud as all H*LL!! Not to mention, definitely NOT emissions legal lol.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: paulie69 on February 29, 2008, 10:43:17 PM
Since we get a lot of questions on a recommended order of modification, we've added a guide to our site.

Flyin' Miata MSM upgrade path (http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/MSM_upgrades.php)

The first 4 can be shuffled around somewhat, but that's the order we think works best. Questions? Give us a call.

Hi Keith,

A quick question...I have the big enchilada package ordered for my 2005 MSM and I had a question regarding boost and whp I can expect. The Web site said around 240 whp - but, others thought that may be an old number when the package included a turbo upgrade as well.

So my question is - what whp can I expect (with the entire package - including hydra and injectors) with the stock turbo. And, in regards to dyno tuning...what do you think is a safe boost to run without prematurely deteriorating the engine.

Thanks for your help. -- Paulie :)


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on March 01, 2008, 01:06:49 AM
We used to quote 265 for the modified turbo package. 220-240 is reasonable for the stock turbo. You're going to find that it doesn't really benefit you to go above 12 psi.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: paulie69 on April 23, 2008, 01:53:29 AM
Hi Keith,

The Big Enchilada Package. The directions were great. With a good tune we ended up with 213 WHP and 206 Ft-Lb of torque at 12 psi with a good tune. Running on 94 Octane Gas.

Paulie


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: emexfive on April 23, 2008, 02:30:49 AM
What kind of dyno? Atmospheric conditions? Did your tuner tell you what he felt the limiting factor was? I suspect there's a few more horses to be had.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: paulie69 on April 24, 2008, 02:58:33 AM
Hi Keith - the tuning was done here http://www.ipsmotorsports.net/

The technician that did it specializes in the Hydra and works at Lamoborghini Ohio.

The run conditions were 64.56 F with 15% humidity. He said they couldn't achieve more power without boosting a lot higher, and as you advised before - we probably did not want to go over 12 psi.

Is there a big difference between dyno numbers?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Swampy on January 04, 2009, 06:08:37 AM
Keith,

I have a question regarding some of the dyno charts for the downpipe/mid pipe/exhaust and the complete intake kit.

When compared with the stock Mazdaspeed, the down/midpipe and exhaust showed a nice gain across the entire rev range but when the complete intake kit was added more gains were realized after 3500rpm. Would the intake kit help a stock Mazdaspeed at less that 4000 rpm just like the downpipe back kit combo did? Just curious as I couldn't find a dyno of the complete intake Vs stock.

Also - as I live in California, what's the best antiseize to use on the exhaust bolts for ease of removal prior to smog testing? PB Blaster works great if you spray it for a couple of days before hand - but I'd prefer not to have to go through that process.

Personally, I'd prefer to turbo my 99 Sport but I can't find a turbo kit that's got a CARB EO# so I'm looking at a Mazdaspeed.... if you just happen to have something then I'd be most interested to hear about it.

Thanks in advance,

Mark.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on January 05, 2009, 04:15:21 AM
I don't think we ever dynoed the intake alone, simply because the downpipe was already on the market by the time we developed that part and we never removed it from our car.

The turbo spool isn't as affected by the intake restriction as it is by a restrictive downpipe, which is why you see the gains at the top end when the stock intake becomes a choke point. I would expect a slight increase below 4000, but the downpipe will have a greater effect there.

Those exhaust bolts are mechanical locking units. Corrosion is not your biggest problem, and I'm not convinced antiseize will survive the temperatures involved. However, the downpipe is pretty much invisible when installed and the catalytic converter is a three-way, just like stock.

We do not have any kits with CARB EOs. None of our MSM parts have EOs either.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Swampy on January 06, 2009, 05:28:27 AM
That's good to know about the exhaust bolts that hookup to the top of the downpipe. Many thanks for that bit of info!

I'm just thinking about what a pain in the rear it's going to be come smog time that's all. It seems as though down here in sunny CA they're anti-Miata when it comes to emissions testing. I've always have to take my 94 and 99 miatas to the Test Only places for full visual and indepth test. Not just a quick peek under the hook and a tester up the tailpipe - they check timing and everything! It was quite a surprise when the girl at the smog place knew exactly where the hookup for the aux power for her timing light, where to jumper and the different coloured dots on the crank pulley were for! I guess shes done this a few times before!

Does the downpipe look very similar to stock? I could deal with swapping the intake kit and last half of the exhaust but I know from experience with my Cali-smog equiped 99 Sport that downpipes are just a pain in the ass to remove and the studs in the bottom of the first cat are a pain to replace.

I'm desperatly trying to find ways to keep the smog Nazi's happy but not have to get a used S2000, Boxster S or Vette in order to get some more get up and go on my 45 mile each way comute. A boy needs more fun on the freeway at 5am when there's no traffic.  :mrgreen:

Go morning Mr Ociffer I wuz only doing 68, honest  :angel1:

 :police:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: VagaXt on January 06, 2009, 08:30:37 AM
I'm just thinking about what a pain in the rear it's going to be come smog time that's all. It seems as though down here in sunny CA they're anti-Miata when it comes to emissions testing.

I'm desperatly trying to find ways to keep the smog Nazi's happy but not have to get a used S2000, Boxster S or Vette in order to get some more get up and go on my 45 mile each way comute. A boy needs more fun on the freeway at 5am when there's no traffic.  :mrgreen:

Go morning Mr Ociffer I wuz only doing 68, honest  :angel1:

 :police:

Tell me about the police and CARB...bleh...  >.<  I'll have to worry about smog for my 2010 sticker...


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: LateralSpeed on January 06, 2009, 02:40:45 PM
I'm just thinking about what a pain in the rear it's going to be come smog time that's all. It seems as though down here in sunny CA they're anti-Miata when it comes to emissions testing.

I'm desperatly trying to find ways to keep the smog Nazi's happy but not have to get a used S2000, Boxster S or Vette in order to get some more get up and go on my 45 mile each way comute. A boy needs more fun on the freeway at 5am when there's no traffic.  :mrgreen:

Go morning Mr Ociffer I wuz only doing 68, honest  :angel1:

 :police:

Tell me about the police and CARB...bleh...  >.<  I'll have to worry about smog for my 2010 sticker...

Yea, you're smog legal  :roll:  :laugh:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on January 06, 2009, 03:59:20 PM
Does the downpipe look very similar to stock? I could deal with swapping the intake kit and last half of the exhaust but I know from experience with my Cali-smog equiped 99 Sport that downpipes are just a pain in the ass to remove and the studs in the bottom of the first cat are a pain to replace.


The MSM exhaust is configured differently than that of a 1999 Sport. The MSM downpipe is polished stainless, which doesn't look much like the stock unit at all. However, unless you're under the car, it's pretty much impossible to see. I would recommend trying to lay your eyes upon your stock unit.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: overkill on January 06, 2009, 07:54:58 PM
It seems as though down here in sunny CA they're anti-Miata when it comes to emissions testing. I've always have to take my 94 and 99 miatas to the Test Only places for full visual and indepth test. Not just a quick peek under the hook and a tester up the tailpipe - they check timing and everything!

Our '04 MSM is due for its first test this coming spring (you get to skip the first bi-annual test on new cars).  I'll be interested to see if they require it go to a Test Only station.

Either way, won't matter to me because I've been using a Test Only station for my other vehicles the past few years, and the guy there is *very* cool, if you know what I mean  :mrgreen:

After completing that test, and assuming I have employment firmed up by then, I'll be looking at doing a complete intake and exhaust on it  thumup


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: cayenne on April 16, 2009, 08:53:57 PM
Does the downpipe look very similar to stock? I could deal with swapping the intake kit and last half of the exhaust but I know from experience with my Cali-smog equiped 99 Sport that downpipes are just a pain in the ass to remove and the studs in the bottom of the first cat are a pain to replace.


The MSM exhaust is configured differently than that of a 1999 Sport. The MSM downpipe is polished stainless, which doesn't look much like the stock unit at all. However, unless you're under the car, it's pretty much impossible to see. I would recommend trying to lay your eyes upon your stock unit.

I don't get it....
In CA, do they have a problem with mods EVEN if it passes the smog tests? They don't allow ANY mods out there?

 :o


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: KingSpeed on April 16, 2009, 08:56:34 PM
Does the downpipe look very similar to stock? I could deal with swapping the intake kit and last half of the exhaust but I know from experience with my Cali-smog equiped 99 Sport that downpipes are just a pain in the ass to remove and the studs in the bottom of the first cat are a pain to replace.


The MSM exhaust is configured differently than that of a 1999 Sport. The MSM downpipe is polished stainless, which doesn't look much like the stock unit at all. However, unless you're under the car, it's pretty much impossible to see. I would recommend trying to lay your eyes upon your stock unit.


I don't get it....
In CA, do they have a problem with mods EVEN if it passes the smog tests? They don't allow ANY mods out there?

 :o

Only if the mod is CARB legal then it is allowed.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: overkill on April 16, 2009, 09:17:55 PM
I don't get it....
In CA, do they have a problem with mods EVEN if it passes the smog tests? They don't allow ANY mods out there?
 :o

If the mod is emissions related, then it has to be approved by the CA Air Resources Board.  It's not a free process to obtain this approval so not all manufacturers bother to obtain it.  But many intakes and headers have CARB approval (Executive Order #).

The emissions test is visual and sniffer.  The sniffer part is hard to tinker with but the visual allows some wiggle room.  Depends on who you get...


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: overkill on April 16, 2009, 09:20:47 PM
After completing that test, and assuming I have employment firmed up by then, I'll be looking at doing a complete intake and exhaust on it  thumup

Well, turns out we get to skip our *2nd* bi-annual test now, too.  We just have to pay an extra fee similar to what it would have cost to get a smog check done.

So we're free and clear for 2 more years, but unfortunately my employment is still not shored up 100% so my planned mods are on hold right now  :(


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: KingSpeed on April 16, 2009, 09:42:01 PM




  Well for me the visual is the one that gets most people because when they see something aftermarket and no CARB sticker they will not even start the test.  You already failed right there.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Tonywil67 on July 22, 2009, 01:30:14 AM
Keith,
what will it cost to do the upgrade to my 2005 MSM. If I drop it in your facility.
I still want the car to look stock. What i mean i do not want it to be obvious that  mods were done to it and how many brake horse power will i gain from the 178HP?
Anthony


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on July 22, 2009, 01:31:47 AM
Keith's on vacation.  You'd be best calling FM.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on July 22, 2009, 04:52:07 AM
I'm back now, actually.

Anthony, what is "the upgrade"? We have quite a range. The cost will obviously depend on just what you want done. Power gains will be similarly affected, as will the visibility of what's been done. Larry's right, give us a call and we can give you good answers.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Verwah on July 22, 2009, 07:44:43 PM
You know, Kieth, he wants "the upgrade" (2.0 stroker with forged internals + GT3071 + 3" exhaust + Hydra + ......)   :lol:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: jag on April 03, 2010, 06:38:00 AM
 :drrol:


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: daytona_675 on May 29, 2011, 10:26:45 AM
whats the increase in power with the Downpipe/catalytic converter for Mazdaspeed MX-5? as on the website you say  "When combined with our Mazdaspeed exhaust.... We measured a 23 hp and 26 lb-ft increase" reason i ask is i dont want to change the muffler as it'll make the car loud, but i am after a tad more power.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: bigx5murf on May 29, 2011, 03:16:18 PM
whats the increase in power with the Downpipe/catalytic converter for Mazdaspeed MX-5? as on the website you say  "When combined with our Mazdaspeed exhaust.... We measured a 23 hp and 26 lb-ft increase" reason i ask is i dont want to change the muffler as it'll make the car loud, but i am after a tad more power.

dp alone will also make the car louder.   DP is responsible for most of those gains, I would think the catback is only responsible for 1-5whp at most.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: devgru38 on June 24, 2011, 05:34:01 PM
whats the increase in power with the Downpipe/catalytic converter for Mazdaspeed MX-5? as on the website you say  "When combined with our Mazdaspeed exhaust.... We measured a 23 hp and 26 lb-ft increase" reason i ask is i dont want to change the muffler as it'll make the car loud, but i am after a tad more power.

dp alone will also make the car louder.   DP is responsible for most of those gains, I would think the catback is only responsible for 1-5whp at most.

Sorry to revive a month old topic, but can anyone confirm this?  Is it worth doing JUST a dp?

(I'm a college student, $$$ is limited)


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on June 24, 2011, 05:47:04 PM
DP only as regards to no catback??

Yea, it's worth it.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: devgru38 on June 24, 2011, 05:54:21 PM
DP only as regards to no catback??

Yea, it's worth it.

Haha, my bad, not enough info.

I mean't stock catback, aftermarket (or home-made) DP.  Worth it? Or will the stock catback system just limit it to the point that dp alone isn't worth it?

Anybody actually done aftermarket DP with stock catback?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on June 24, 2011, 05:57:30 PM
I already said it's worth it.  Yes, you'll get more with a catback but you'll get an improvement with just the DP.  Biggest improvement is from an intake though.  Do you already have that?  If not start there.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: devgru38 on June 24, 2011, 06:01:00 PM
I already said it's worth it.  Yes, you'll get more with a catback but you'll get an improvement with just the DP.  Biggest improvement is from an intake though.  Do you already have that?  If not start there.

Yep, got the intake.  And sorry, when you said "no catback" I thought you meant like... no catback at all  ;D (Open DP)

How significantly perceivable are the benefits to the DP as compared to the intake (incl mbc->10psi)? (I know it's a different effect, but just curious).

Also, is there much of a difference in exhaust tone?

Thanks!


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: bigx5murf on June 24, 2011, 06:11:13 PM
I'm running an eBay catless dp with stock catback, it was my first mod. Definitely worth it, for the quicker spool and noise alone.  Begi dyno'd just dp, and I think they recorded a 17whp gain.

Like smr said though, intake added more.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on June 24, 2011, 06:12:22 PM
Like he said and he is running catless which will make the gain/feel more



Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on June 24, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
We actually developed our downpipe first, before the intake. When you're addressing exhaust parts, you always go to the biggest restriction. In the stock system, that's the stock cat. And it definitely makes a difference. I'm thinking it's in the 20 rwhp range, I forget the exact number. The catback will also help, but only once you've changed the downpipe.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: devgru38 on June 24, 2011, 07:01:23 PM
I'm running an eBay catless dp with stock catback, it was my first mod. Definitely worth it, for the quicker spool and noise alone.  Begi dyno'd just dp, and I think they recorded a 17whp gain.

Like smr said though, intake added more.

Thanks for the info!

Keith: 20rwhp range for the DP alone? Where is all the restriction coming from?  Just the cat?

Would I be correct in assuming:
Stock Cat -> High Flow Cat = ~20hp
High Flow Cat -> No Cat = ~5hp?


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on June 27, 2011, 02:38:05 PM
You can make up magic numbers for the lack of cat, I have no measured ones. However, if the stock muffler is now more restrictive than the new cat then I wouldn't expect much change until that was sorted.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: emexfive on July 14, 2011, 05:39:20 AM
whats the increase in power with the Downpipe/catalytic converter for Mazdaspeed MX-5? as on the website you say  "When combined with our Mazdaspeed exhaust.... We measured a 23 hp and 26 lb-ft increase" reason i ask is i dont want to change the muffler as it'll make the car loud, but i am after a tad more power.

The DP nor the cat back will make the car what I'd call loud. To me it makes it sound perfect! Stock the MSM (thus I assume the MX-5 SE) sounds WAY too quiet compared to most naturally aspirated MX-5s to me. I was shocked and dismayed how quiet (and boring sounding) this new "performance" Miata was when I first bought mine. The FM DP and catback just are a bit louder than a stock non turbo MX-5 to my ears. I don't think you'll be attracting cops or anything with the extra volume if that's your worry.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SJMSM on July 16, 2013, 12:32:18 PM
I have been running the full FM exhaust for over two months now and can attest to the fact that it isn't loud and hasn't gotten any louder. The complete system is a work of art, polished stainless, and everything fits with no problems. It makes good sense to do the entire exhaust rather than try to mate the new 2 1/2" downpipe to the 2 1/4" OE midpipe.





Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: gregmiata on August 02, 2014, 10:55:31 PM
When I bought my MSM last fall it had the stock MP and muffler with the FM DP. The sound was muted but with a nice purr. I added the rest of the FM exhaust over the winter and really like the increased sound too with one exception - there is a pretty loud bass resonance around 1,800 rpm for me now. Get under about 1,500 and above about 2,200 and its gone. Not sure its really heard outside of car but its pretty loud inside. If I could take that away I would be 100% happy with the added sound.



Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Graz16 on September 08, 2016, 04:21:05 AM
Hello Keith,

Thanks for supporting a forum where your customers can ask you infinite questions, before, and after they send you money.

I just installed your cross flow radiator and stage two fan assembly on my '04. I had eliminated all other issues, so I had to have a cooling problem. I believe that the P.O. had installed a massive (unknown make) inter cooler that virtually covered the under hood intake. So, I was not getting enough air through the inter cooler, the power steering cooler, the AC condenser to cool off the radiator. I just happened to take a very long way around realizing this.

Anyway... The installation was nearly flawlessly easy. One point I would suggest that you look into though is to add another bracket to the radiator kit. Since the cross flow radiator has a filling cap that extends behind the radiator, I now have "contact" with the inter cooler intake. Sorry... I do not know if it is stock.

This presents a problem. Installation called for some "elbow" grease" to push the IC down pipe back far enough that the flanges that mount it to the frame no longer fit.  I have a picture someplace that I can't upload at the moment. (ASAP) This also made the bottom connection of that pipe to the inter cooler separate.  Presenting the obvious problems. I fixed it by connecting the pipe to the inter cooler, then pushing it below the radiator filling port and tightening all connections that fit. There are still two securing nuts that won't mate with the original bolts on the frame. I will have to make a bracket to connect the upper bolt, and I will have to bend the lower bracket to reach the stud on the frame.

Since all other parts of this installation went very smooth. I am a little surprised that you had not considered this contingency. Since I don't know if I am talking about stock plumbing, I can't tell. And I understand that you can not prepare for all possible installations. But... It seems that a universal adapter could be made and sold with the kit to enable this problem moot. Some instructions on your very precise documentation could also include bending the lower bracket to fasten to the frame.  What do you think?

Oh yeah!   If I spent over $900 on these components, I would think you guys could throw in a couple of FM decals or stickers too!   :laugh:



Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Keith on September 08, 2016, 04:30:00 PM
I think I need to see what you encountered before we "fix" this problem.

We do usually include stickers, but occasionally we run out.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: mr_hyde on September 09, 2016, 01:50:45 AM
I'd love to see some pictures.  It is possible that this is the first ever install of a crossflow in an MSM with a stock intake.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: Panhandler on September 20, 2016, 07:18:50 PM
The link in the first post is broken.  Can't see the original upgrade order.


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: m3fan4ever on September 20, 2016, 07:23:10 PM
The link in the first post is broken.  Can't see the original upgrade order.

Try this.
https://www.flyinmiata.com/miata-performance-parts/msm-2004-05-turbo/msm-turbo-packages.html (https://www.flyinmiata.com/miata-performance-parts/msm-2004-05-turbo/msm-turbo-packages.html)


Title: Re: Mazdaspeed upgrade guide on FM website
Post by: SilverMiataRacer on September 20, 2016, 07:49:47 PM
The link in the first post is broken.  Can't see the original upgrade order.

Fixed