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Author Topic: New springs and shocks, need advice  (Read 10879 times)
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04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 11:25:36 PM »

Right, and like I said, I usually don't go for cheap stuff but IMO the BC has the AFCO beat in nearly every department. Just because the AFCOs are expensive doesn't mean they are the best either.

Using your logic just because the BC cost less doesn't mean they are a good deal either.  Sometimes you truly do get what you pay for and going cheap you get cheap.
I agree and usually shy from cheap coils but seeing that 2 of my friends run them, ive driven their cars (LGT, EVO X) and ridden in them extensively and I have nothing bad to say. With a few turns of the adjustment knobs to set damping, the cars handle well and ride well also, both cars are pretty damn low and one rides on 19x8.5 wheels with 225 35 rubberbands, has a cigarette pack of clearance up front and is still super comfy.

Worst comes to worst, I sell them and try something else, like my friend said its not like racing where there is pretty much a set formula in what wins and what doesn't, different folks have different strokes at the end of the day.

I will probbably do this

Get the BC coils
Spend some time setting them properly and then learn to drive on them till spring
Come spring my tires on my BBS wheels will be worn, at which point I'll get new wheels
either
15x8 6UL with 225 50 tires
or
15x8 ATS DTC Superlight with 225 50 tires
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 11:28:51 PM by 04TitaniumGrayPhilly » Logged

2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2009, 01:34:34 AM »

One of the biggest things here that hasn't been mentioned: 

Consistency between Dampers.

I'm pretty sure FM would NOT neglect this aspect on something as high end as the AFCO's, while most other coilover suspensions can be HUGELY off.  I seem to remember one of the better magazines (SCC, GRM, etc) doing a test a few years ago and finding that cheap coilovers and some better known drop-in shocks (notably, Koni's) had as much as 20% variance from unit to unit.  That can make for some MAJOR handling issues that would be VERY hard to track down. 

On the other hand you might get lucky and get a well matched set. 

I subscribe to the "get what you pay for" philosophy in suspension.  I don't mean that you need to pay $2000 for AFCO's or $3000 for Ohlins, but that if you pay $1000 for a set of coilovers you really have to think about how much development time and what quality of materials are going into those units.  Companies like Ohlins and AFCO have a reputation for excellence for a reason. 
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2004 Ti Mazdaspeed MX-5 - R.I.P. 08FEB2010

1990 CRX HF - 72 HP @ 4500 RPM with a 2.95 Final Drive!
04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2009, 03:41:34 AM »

Not what the guy from FCM told me LOL
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2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
NastyNate
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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2009, 06:13:28 AM »

I'm looking at coils in the 1k range myself. Would I love to throw on a set of AFCO's? HELL YEAH! But am I really getting 1k more worth of suspension? Taking into consideration my driving ability, I probably won't. And I think that's the difference for a lot of people. Most of us mortals really aren't going to use either suspension to its full potential. Yeah AFCO's were made with the Targa in mind. Who here is ever gonna run that? And out of that many how many are going to be competetive enough to need, not want, that 2 thousand doallar suspension?
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04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2009, 06:22:18 PM »

Spot on dude. No point getting something just for the name.
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2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2009, 01:40:06 PM »

Not what the guy from FCM told me LOL

When you throw out a statement like this, you really need to say what you mean. 

I made several statements you may be disagreeing with there.  Does FCM think the AFCO's are not matched?  The Koni's are perfectly matched?  What is it that you mean?  Also, I know FCM has a good rep, but you also need to take into account the bias of the people you are talking to. 

Statements like this are completely worthless.
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2004 Ti Mazdaspeed MX-5 - R.I.P. 08FEB2010

1990 CRX HF - 72 HP @ 4500 RPM with a 2.95 Final Drive!
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2009, 01:58:21 PM »

The thing I like about Shaikh is his honesty in not trying to force you to spend money on something you've told him you can't afford.  He tries to help you find what will work for you in your price range.  That said he is a business man and as such I also expect that there will be a bit of bias towards his products and against the competitions.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
Aruba
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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2009, 07:49:14 PM »

The thing I like about Shaikh is his honesty in not trying to force you to spend money on something you've told him you can't afford.  He tries to help you find what will work for you in your price range.  That said he is a business man and as such I also expect that there will be a bit of bias towards his products and against the competitions.

A agree, Larry.  In a couple of phone conversations with Shaikh (and by the way I think its absolutely amazing that he answers his phone and dispenses advice to anyone) I let him know up front that I could not afford coil-overs nor even his very nice revalved Bilstein HDs, so he carefully answered my novice level shock questions, and adamantly steered my away from using the MSM OE Bisteins with the stiffer FM springs (the valving on the OE Bilsteins is mismatched to the stiffer FM springs and he highly recommended the off the shelf Bilstein HDs which he does not sell - although he did state that the revalved ones would work a bit better for my track needs), and he did not twist my arm to buy anything from him.  I did end up buying a set of his 36mm bump-stops, but mainly because the guy who bought my MSM silver Bilsteins wanted the OE bump-stops.  And then re the bump-stops, he very kindly expedited the delivery so I got them within two days because I had an appointment for the installation of the new suspension parts.  That's a first class business man who will get future business from me.
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Black w/silver lip 15x8 +36 offset 6UL wheels with 225/45/15 Toyo R888 tires; FM IC, GFB-BOV, MBC, O2 modifier, DP and full turbo exhaust; BEGI throttle inlet duct and full BEGI CAI; FM springs and sways; Bilstein HD shocks with FCM 36mm bump-stops; 37mm Koyo dual-core radiator; Hard Dog rollbar; Simpson 6-pt harness systems for driver and passenger; A-pillar dual-pod with boost and oil temp gauges; Audiovox CC-100 cruise control operated via Mazda steering wheel stalk.  Here's a video link of the car in action at a Laguna Seca HPDE http://miata-website.rdopso.com/Videos/Laguna%20Seca%202009%20clip.wmv .

This wonderful MSM now belongs to Apexeater who is enjoying running it on the four Phoenix-area road racing tracks at least as much as I did.
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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2009, 09:04:10 PM »

One of the biggest things here that hasn't been mentioned: 

Consistency between Dampers.

I'm pretty sure FM would NOT neglect this aspect on something as high end as the AFCO's, while most other coilover suspensions can be HUGELY off.  I seem to remember one of the better magazines (SCC, GRM, etc) doing a test a few years ago and finding that cheap coilovers and some better known drop-in shocks (notably, Koni's) had as much as 20% variance from unit to unit.  That can make for some MAJOR handling issues that would be VERY hard to track down. 

On the other hand you might get lucky and get a well matched set. 

I subscribe to the "get what you pay for" philosophy in suspension.  I don't mean that you need to pay $2000 for AFCO's or $3000 for Ohlins, but that if you pay $1000 for a set of coilovers you really have to think about how much development time and what quality of materials are going into those units.  Companies like Ohlins and AFCO have a reputation for excellence for a reason. 


Allegedly BC dynos each set of coilovers and matches them.  I have seen the dyno plots and they don't look all that good compared to a Tein.  Rebound seems to be a bit lacking.
They are a large company and they subcontract build coilovers for the top brands.  I once stumbled on one of their websites that looked like someone from Outer Mongolia translated it.  They had a picture of one of their own strut-type coilover sets.  The bottoms were painted Tein green.  Roll Eyes  Take it for what it's worth.



I think Nate has made a very valid point.  How many of us really have the need to have Motons, Penskes, or Ohlins?  Not many IMHO.


 

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SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 10:14:24 PM »

The thing I like about Shaikh is his honesty in not trying to force you to spend money on something you've told him you can't afford.  He tries to help you find what will work for you in your price range.  That said he is a business man and as such I also expect that there will be a bit of bias towards his products and against the competitions.

A agree, Larry.  In a couple of phone conversations with Shaikh (and by the way I think its absolutely amazing that he answers his phone and dispenses advice to anyone) I let him know up front that I could not afford coil-overs nor even his very nice revalved Bilstein HDs, so he carefully answered my novice level shock questions, and adamantly steered my away from using the MSM OE Bisteins with the stiffer FM springs (the valving on the OE Bilsteins is mismatched to the stiffer FM springs and he highly recommended the off the shelf Bilstein HDs which he does not sell - although he did state that the revalved ones would work a bit better for my track needs), and he did not twist my arm to buy anything from him.  I did end up buying a set of his 36mm bump-stops, but mainly because the guy who bought my MSM silver Bilsteins wanted the OE bump-stops.  And then re the bump-stops, he very kindly expedited the delivery so I got them within two days because I had an appointment for the installation of the new suspension parts.  That's a first class business man who will get future business from me.

I had exactly the same experience with the same conversation about the same parts and did the same thing.   Cheesy
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
mprhead5
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2009, 01:49:27 AM »

monotubes are most consistant. I don't think I would use adjustables much even if I had them.

Quote
The thing I like about Shaikh is his honesty in not trying to force you to spend money on something you've told him you can't afford.  He tries to help you find what will work for you in your price range.  That said he is a business man and as such I also expect that there will be a bit of bias towards his products and against the competitions.

I spent a long time on the phone with shaikh talking about what options I had. Initially I was asking about a 1k solution. he was happy selling me only bumpstops and advising other products to fill my need. In the end though I was so impressed with his knowledge and product that I bit the bullet and ordered his coilovers. Maybe they are not as trick as some others but they are the best money I have spent on my car. I will always do suspension mods first from now on because I now understand how well a car can handle with a properly balanced setup.

+1 for FCM coilovers
+100 for informed decision making provided by shaikh
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http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=FZOCMIgpT3g
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#64 of 4000 completed Friday January 30th  04
Mods: BNR Turbo EVO III 16G, full intake/exhaust, Hydra 2.5, BFG Rivals. FCM Coilovers, 3.63 gears, HDHC,  
bitrusty
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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2009, 12:59:25 PM »

For what its worth, I recently upgraded to BC coilovers (Type VA)
http://www.bcracing.co.nz/index.php?/Product-Function/va-design.html

I can only comment on these as I have never owned any other aftermarket mx5 suspension

Nothing wrong with the quality of these things. Really impressed in all aspects. The ride quality is up substantially on the stock units

The height adjustability is a godsend over stock, also easy to adjust. I dropped it 30mm front and 60mm rear.

Backyard install was a breeze Smiley

The guy who runs the suspension shop (also an mx5 driver) suggested the rates of 6kg fronts and 5kg rears and he was spot on. He suggested these saying "perfect for 90% street 10% track"

Firmer than stock, yet much more comfortable then stock. A pleasant surprise. For a street setup, you couldnt ask for more... even in a more expensive kit.

Considering in Aus, these cost me $1225 delivered (quotes over $2k for super streets) and sold my stockers online in 20 minutes for $400, it was a decent upgrade for $800.

Sure... your results may vary, but I doubt it Smiley


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2005 Silver SE - Full SMB Exhaust, AEM intake, Adaptronic e420c, Deatschwerks 600cc injectors, FM throttle elbow, cooler, GFB Mach1 BOV, BC coilovers, 15x8 6ULs, Rollbar
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« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2009, 06:25:42 AM »

Good review bitrusty! I'm seriously considering the BCs when it comes time for me to upgrade my suspension.
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05 Black Mica
Prolumen 4.5K HID | Stewart Warner boost gauge | AEM Intake | Bosch DV | eBay FMIC | 15x8 6UL Bronze | 225/50/15 Kumho Ecsta AST | Raceland Coilovers | eBay DP | Thompson Air Horn | OEM Hardtop | Magnaflow cat back exhaust
Davex3
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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2009, 04:09:56 AM »

Good to hear that with better suspension the car handels better and is nicer to ride in for daily driving.

Now you've just got to get some better sways.  thumup
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2004 MX-5 SE Velocity Red

FM Downpipe - FM Throttle body inlet - Hybrid FM / AEM intake - Turbosmart Boost Tee @ 11.5psi - FM turbo PCV valve - Boost cut mod - MX6 326cc Injectors - GFB Stealth FX - 27" Delta fin intercooler - CorkSport 80mm Exhaust - YSR Coilovers - FM sway bars - 949Racing/PowerGrid endlinks - FM Frame Rails - Mazdaspeed 3pt strut brace - Energy diff mounts - FM Supersize Happy Meal - 949 Wilwood BBK w/ Carbotech XP8 - 949Racing Stainless Steel brake lines - Rota Slipstream 16x8 ET34 - Federal 595RS-R 205/45/16 - MiataRoadster short shifter - BD rollbar - Sparco Sprint V - Rennenmetal tow hooks - Autometer boost gauge - Nopro washer bottle - Removed visors. Runs on freshly squeezed kitten juice.

Bought but not installed yet - Adaptronic e420c.
bitrusty
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« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2009, 01:37:49 AM »

A few more days on, I'm still really impressed with the ride quality on these BCs.

A lot of my driving is the same route over and over. So like most of you guys, I'm sure, I know where all the humps and bumps are in these roads like the back of my hand. I would drive to avoid these bumps because they always felt quite harsh on the stockers.(I always put it down to 40 series tyre) Well the last few days, I have not been avoiding them and the difference is just mind boggling.

I know everyone's opinion of a "good ride" will vary greatly, but I cant help but think the stock SE suspension is both under sprung and over dampened when compared to the results i'm getting from the BCs

Naturally, the big test will be how well these are standing up after a year or two. Fingers crossed  thumup

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2005 Silver SE - Full SMB Exhaust, AEM intake, Adaptronic e420c, Deatschwerks 600cc injectors, FM throttle elbow, cooler, GFB Mach1 BOV, BC coilovers, 15x8 6ULs, Rollbar
http://www.aerialsolutions.com.au/
http://www.wheelstandpro.com.au/
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