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Author Topic: What height?  (Read 6139 times)
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04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« on: May 03, 2011, 02:53:13 AM »

2004 MSM
Tein FLEX 7k/6k
OEM front sway/Removed rear sway
225 45 15 Ventus RS-3 tires
15x9 6UL

I think the car handles awesome but at 11.75" all around I don't know if that's an ideal performance height. What is the "optimum" height for a Miata with these types of mods to be?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 03:03:09 AM by 04TitaniumGrayPhilly » Logged

2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 03:02:53 AM »

Here are a few pix, it feels fine, a bit crazy over dips, it doesn't bounce around after a bump but it's street driven and a bumpy turn doesn't feel all that assuring. I don't know if that's just the nature of the coilovers or because of the height I have, mind you I haven't touched the pre-load since they were out of the box, all adjustment was done with the bottom-most collars. Also this is my first set of real adjustable coilovers so I don't really know how to set them up properly perhaps, just any pointers would be great.



Further of the 2 in this shot




Doesn't rub or anything like that, and that said it still scares the crap out of me sometimes, but I want to know if I'm getting everything I can out of it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 03:05:35 AM by 04TitaniumGrayPhilly » Logged

2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
Lokiel
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 11:25:55 PM »

:
I think the car handles awesome but at 11.75" all around I don't know if that's an ideal performance height. What is the "optimum" height for a Miata with these types of mods to be?

FM recommends for handling that the rears should be 0.5" higher than the front - the car was designed that way. Goodwin recommends 0.25".

As for height, if it's a DD, low enough not to drag your arse over speed humps! (for me, that's just under 12" at thefront)
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Ti Aussie "SE" (cannot be called "MazdaSpeed" here, "speed/performance" badging encourages reckless driving apparently), DIY AutoTune MS3-Pro ECU, Borg-Warner EFR6258, NitroDann custom manifold+3"exhaust+CAI, Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors, GM D514A CNPs, 83.5mm coated CP pistons, K1 rods, Fab9 350HP intercooler,  ported Squaretop Intake Manifold, Skunk2 Throttle Body, ATi Super Damper, '95MSM SpeedHut Boost Gauge Mod, GREDDY Remote Oil Filter Relocation with Thermostat, Setrab Oil Cooler, BC Racing BR Series coilovers (8/6kg), 1.125" Racing Beat Tubular Sway Bar + Al Braces, 949racing SuperMiata end links, Carbing 3-pt shock tower brace, Nickel 6UL 15x8s, Toyo R1Rs 225/45/15, Wilwood Front BBK, SS Brake Lines, FM Frame Rails, Boss Frog "Frog Arms", MX5 Plus Twin Hoop Roll Bar, MiataRoadster long-angled SSK, Piano-Black Voodoo Knob&HandBrake, Innovate MTX-L Wideband O2 gauge+sensor, Lotus Probax seats + lots of "goes faster" chrome bling (since chrome reflects light, less of the colour spectrum is absorbed, making the car lighter - "pseudo-science" Smiley ).
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HELLIONMX5
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 03:53:20 PM »

Wow, found your tein huh? did yall dress the same for the meet as well Smiley Car looks really nice man. Good to hear it doesn't rub  I would ultimately like the 15x9 but I'm guessing with the 15x8 you can fit a 50 series tire under there with no problems. you should call goodwinracing or FM or even emilio and report back to us. I would also like to know the answer to your question.
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formerly hiddenmazda... Thanks to Gary, I'm not hidden anymore!
2005 MSM #1153 a.k.a Blackout
konig feathers Black 12.4lbs/205/50/15 kumho asx/custom 3" Enthuza XR/custom 2.5" - 3" enthuza midpipe/black razr grill from the grill guy/20% tint all around including windshield/sun visor delete/cool breeze scoop/"baby Teeth" delete/Dragon tattoos (from the 3 trips to MATG 13,14,and 15)/drilled and slotted rotors/PBR/Axxis Metal Master(XBG)/black decepticon tire valves/FMDP/Mako Shark Teeth/plastidip blacked out emblems, Joe's Maf reloc kit+MBC, fab9 COPs, eBay FMIC, carbonmiata silicon hoses, led foglights, aux in mod. FM stage2 fans, Koyo 37mm radiator. CHEVYSPEED-MSM/W LSX V8 (1 DAY)
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http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,30085.msg339245/topicseen.html#msg339245
newold_m
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 05:14:16 PM »

Here is a good thread on how to setup the proper ride height for Tein's or any other adjustable shock length coilovers.  Link to the relevant page of the discussion:  http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=266038&page=6
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Woofster
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 05:35:36 PM »

I'm running the TEIN Flex at 11.5" F/R with excellent results.  I do have stiffer front springs (10K) but no rubbing anywhere.  I've set them 3 clicks off full hard in the front and right in the middle in the rear.  I'm running the RB 1.25" front bar and have the stock rear bar.  Car is extremely grippy and flickable.  My street tires are the Nitto NT01 225/45/15 on a 15X9.  Here's a shot from a recent AutoX on the A6 Hoosier 225/45/15 (wider than the Nitto requiring a fender roll).  
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 05:37:52 PM by Woofster » Logged

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04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 01:13:02 PM »

Im looking at all of these links and it makes me feel like I got the wrong suspension because of the whole rear spring issue, and I am still very confused on how to set them up properly. I can't find like a dummy step by step guide for it. I'm already getting used to the idea that I'll probbably need longer rear springs and to be honest, it's pissing me off, much like the rest of the set-up process.
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2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
Woofster
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 02:41:20 AM »

Im looking at all of these links and it makes me feel like I got the wrong suspension because of the whole rear spring issue, and I am still very confused on how to set them up properly. I can't find like a dummy step by step guide for it. I'm already getting used to the idea that I'll probbably need longer rear springs and to be honest, it's pissing me off, much like the rest of the set-up process.

Why do you need "longer" rear springs?  The coilovers are fully adjustable so the spring length isn't an issue.  Now if you're concerned with the spring rates not being what you wanted, or the dampening and rebound of the shock themselves, that's a valid concern.   Cry
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Hydra Nemesis; 550 injectors; Flying Miata Full Intake Kit w/MBC (MAFless) & GFB recirculating bypass valve; Flying Miata DP; Flying Miata Full Exhaust; FMIC 28X7X2.5; Fat Cat Motorsports Elites (single adjustable) 800/500; Racing Beat 1.25" Tubular Front Sway bar w/Brace Kit and Gearheads Gauge Adjustable endlinks; OEM 14mm rear sway bar; FM Frame Rails; HDHCDDHT Rollbar; Hard Dog Harness Bar; G-Force 6-Point Pull-Down Camlock Harness; Ultrashield Rally Sport Seat; Energy Suspension Diff Bushings; Carbotech XP10/XP8 Brake Pads;  Stainless Steel Brake Lines; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & BF Goodrich g-Force Rival (225/45/15) street; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier A6 (275/35/15) track; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier H2O (225/45/15) wet track; Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge; Thompson Nautilus Air Horn; Mobile 1 0W-30; Redline MT90; Redline 75W90; BEL-tronics Pro RX65. 1/20/08 190.06 HP @ 178.36 Max Torque (Need a new Dyno run because this is inaccurate with current mods!)
"Racing...is life!  Everything that happens before and after is just waiting."  -  Steve McQueen in Le Mans
dvdreith
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 09:47:41 AM »

As others have mentioned the mists likes rake! I have played around alot (over $1k) with my coilovers (bc coils) and have come up with several conclusions
-3.5 canned is way too much, -2.5 is good!
11.5 ride height isn't good for daily! Instead 11.75F, 12 to 12.25R
toe and caster to fm's specs
Im on 15x9's with nitto nt01's
For daily driving I set the dampening in the middle. There are 31 clicks from soft to hard and I keep them at 16 clicks from soft.

When I autox, I go 7 clicks from hard in the front and 10 in the rear.
I have stock sways and I can tell you I NEED a bigger front bar!

Now! For getting sideways around just about every corner you take
-3.5 camber, full hard (31 clicks from soft) 11.5" front and rear, 205-45-16's, full bolt ons @ 13psi. It us fun..but I prefer the other set up...especially in new england!
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04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2011, 02:56:03 PM »

at 5" pinchweld to ground got aligned today, here are the new specs which I was given which in my opinion are way out of spec because of the variance from side to side. I sat in the car for the whole alignment to put the load on the suspension and this is what happened. My biggest concern with this setup is inconsistent handling from side to side as well as uneven wear which I know is more due to toe, but camber plays a role as well. I am going to print this thread and bring it to the shop Sunday morning, the Service manager suggested I put it to stock specs. My requested specs are as follows

Front Camber = -1.8
Rear Camber = -1.5
Toe = 0 or close
Front Caster = ~4

What I got
FL:
Camber = -1.2
Caster = 5.0
Toe = .10

FR:
Camber = -2.6
Caster = 5.2
Toe = -.12

RL:
Camber = -2.0
Toe = .13

RR:
Camber = -1.2
Toe = .10

Please post some thoughts on this setup, and your specs if you have them around. I've only put a few miles on the car but I can already feel it pulls right when I let go of the wheel and the wheel is slightly cocked left driving straight.

These measurements seem really poor to me, the Toe is what I wanted and the Caster is as well, but the camber is so off from side to side.

Also these are the measurements they took on the car from hub to fender, which again do not match the height that I've set over the last 3 weeks. They say

FL: 11.8
FR: 12.3
RL 12.5
RR 12.5

If I repeatedly measured 5" pinchweld to floor, how is it all of the sudden off?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 03:00:00 PM by 04TitaniumGrayPhilly » Logged

2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2011, 03:12:42 PM »

Forget the pinch weld to the ground.

If your not corner weighting then measure hub center to fender well lip.

Match both sides on the front.

Then  go somewhere that actually do an alignment and get the numbers matched side to side
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

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Woofster
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2011, 03:45:01 PM »


What I got
FL:
Camber = -1.2
Caster = 5.0
Toe = .10

FR:
Camber = -2.6
Caster = 5.2
Toe = -.12

RL:
Camber = -2.0
Toe = .13

RR:
Camber = -1.2
Toe = .10

Please post some thoughts on this setup, and your specs if you have them around. I've only put a few miles on the car but I can already feel it pulls right when I let go of the wheel and the wheel is slightly cocked left driving straight.

These measurements seem really poor to me, the Toe is what I wanted and the Caster is as well, but the camber is so off from side to side.


That alignment seems more appropriate for someone who knows zero about how to do one!  There's no justification for the specs being that mixed.  Don't let anyone tell you how to balance your car and don't let them "correct" for road crowning!  Ask to sit in the driver's seat while the alignment is being performed (if you predominantly drive by yourself) and that way you can speak with the mechanic while he's working and probably see the machines specs as they are being input.  You got raped!   Tongue
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Hydra Nemesis; 550 injectors; Flying Miata Full Intake Kit w/MBC (MAFless) & GFB recirculating bypass valve; Flying Miata DP; Flying Miata Full Exhaust; FMIC 28X7X2.5; Fat Cat Motorsports Elites (single adjustable) 800/500; Racing Beat 1.25" Tubular Front Sway bar w/Brace Kit and Gearheads Gauge Adjustable endlinks; OEM 14mm rear sway bar; FM Frame Rails; HDHCDDHT Rollbar; Hard Dog Harness Bar; G-Force 6-Point Pull-Down Camlock Harness; Ultrashield Rally Sport Seat; Energy Suspension Diff Bushings; Carbotech XP10/XP8 Brake Pads;  Stainless Steel Brake Lines; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & BF Goodrich g-Force Rival (225/45/15) street; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier A6 (275/35/15) track; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier H2O (225/45/15) wet track; Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge; Thompson Nautilus Air Horn; Mobile 1 0W-30; Redline MT90; Redline 75W90; BEL-tronics Pro RX65. 1/20/08 190.06 HP @ 178.36 Max Torque (Need a new Dyno run because this is inaccurate with current mods!)
"Racing...is life!  Everything that happens before and after is just waiting."  -  Steve McQueen in Le Mans
04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 05:07:56 PM »

Manager said to bring it again Monday if they can't do it I'll get my money back.
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2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 05:12:15 PM »

Ask for the senior alignment tech this time.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2011, 03:52:34 PM »

Got my money back, doing this instead (they are supposed to be one of the best out there), Package 4 to be exact. So good in fact I wasn't able to get an appointment until the 23rd, and that's pretty quick too because a few weeks ago they quoted me over a month wait.

http://rttuning.com/alignment/
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2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
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