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Author Topic: Presenting '90MSM!  (Read 179364 times)
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mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #180 on: April 01, 2012, 02:33:34 AM »

Good day at Laguna. The first session was dry and the the skies opened and dumped buckets for about an hour. Not Seattle rain either- biblical rain. It was coming down so hard I was unwilling to put on the star specs (street tires from the black car that were brought to serve rain duty).  I skipped the second session which was black flagged anyway. It let up and we did two wet sessions and by the last session it was dry on NT-01s and I finally started to feel comfortable. The best news is the car ran great!  Video will be a few days at best...
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #181 on: April 02, 2012, 08:18:57 PM »

The second day was epic. I'm currently doing time in the Atlanta airport but there will be video. A HUGE thanks to Murat for the hospitality and storage services while I travel.
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
newold_m
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« Reply #182 on: April 03, 2012, 03:16:55 AM »

'04MSM guarding the '90MSM Smiley

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'04 MSM: sold
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #183 on: April 04, 2012, 03:46:13 AM »

Now that the car is track worthy, I can spend a bit of time banging out some of those ugly dents!  Here's one of the mid-day sessions from Sunday.  I was starting to feel more comfortable with the car and the track so things were picking up.  I'll skip the video from the following session of me going 4 off in T6 while trying to keep up with Emilio driving Crusher...   rolleyes  This sessions does show me catching a some miata royalty however - Flyin' Miata's FMII car Igor falls to '90MSM and the soul of chassis #606!   afro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLRH-AJKG8
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
joeereid
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« Reply #184 on: April 04, 2012, 07:10:19 AM »

Good to hear thing went swimmingly for you down there this year. The trailer must be a good luck charm!
4 wheels off and running down faster cars! That's so unlike you....
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
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« Reply #185 on: April 04, 2012, 10:22:26 AM »

Who was driving Igor???
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #186 on: April 04, 2012, 11:41:53 AM »

Since I smoked Igor like a Habana special, I assume Keith wasn't driving but I'm not sure who was...
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
turborascal
18 Mazdas since 1974; 7 Miatas
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« Reply #187 on: April 04, 2012, 12:04:59 PM »

Now that the car is track worthy, I can spend a bit of time banging out some of those ugly dents!  Here's one of the mid-day sessions from Sunday.  I was starting to feel more comfortable with the car and the track so things were picking up.  I'll skip the video from the following session of me going 4 off in T6 while trying to keep up with Emilio driving Crusher...   rolleyes  This sessions does show me catching a some miata royalty however - Flyin' Miata's FMII car Igor falls to '90MSM and the soul of chassis #606!   afro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLRH-AJKG8


Congratulations on a strong run.  With your rush to finish the car in time for MRLS, it's amazingly well sorted. 

Our local club track is fun, but MRLS looks to be a hoot!  I'd love to make it there some day.

I'm impressed with your smooth driving and particularly enjoy watching you reel the slower cars in and then "Flyin'" past.   drivingss
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[NB] "Orange Crush": '05 LO MSM (#802/1428) (1 of 394 LOs) Matching hardtop | Hard Dog M2 Hard Core rollbar | Continental Extreme Contact DW 215/45-17s mounted on Enkei NT03+M wheels | BEGi Downpipe | BEGi Throttle Body Inlet | Forge Bypass Valve | BEGi cold air intake | Enthuza midpipe and exhaust | BEGi ECU reflash | FM crossflow radiator | FM stage 2 fans | FM check valve | MiataRoadster short-shifter kit | Autometer Boost Gauge | Innovate MTX wideband | Scangauge II on a BlendMount | Rostra Electronic Cruise Control | Kenwood 9980HD nav/sat radio/DVD/Bluetooth | RSpeed hood struts | Motorcraft synthetic trans oil | Stebel/Nautilus air horn   SOLD!
[NC] "Daisy Dolphin": '11 MX-5 GT, Dolphin Gray PRHT Special Edition (1 of 750) SmartTop module | Kenwood 9980HD nav/sat radio/DVD/Bluetooth | RSpeed hood struts | Stebel/Nautilus air horn
'14 Mazda3 S Grand Touring HB | Soul Red | 2.5 Sky Activ | Tech Package
'15 Porsche Cayman GTS, Jet Black Metallic | PDK | PASM | PTV | Sport Chrono | Park Distance/backup camera | Burmester sound/XM | PCM/Nav
Lokiel
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« Reply #188 on: April 14, 2012, 11:46:41 PM »

mr_hyde, I'll start off by saying that I'm mightily impressed with your and '95MSM's MSM engine swaps into an NA, but in hindsight, if you had to do it over again, would you do it or simply add a FM StageII kit plus additional bracing to a 1.8L NA instead?

For a dedicated track car, I would think the latter solution would have been an easier route.

For a DD+track car, '95MSM's car is one of my favourite NAs since it has the NB dashboard which I think is the best looking of the NA/NB/NC MX5s (NC's dashboard looks cheap, "plasticky" and tacky IMO).
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Ti Aussie "SE" (cannot be called "MazdaSpeed" here, "speed/performance" badging encourages reckless driving apparently), DIY AutoTune MS3-Pro ECU, Borg-Warner EFR6258, NitroDann custom manifold+3"exhaust+CAI, Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors, GM D514A CNPs, 83.5mm coated CP pistons, K1 rods, Fab9 350HP intercooler,  ported Squaretop Intake Manifold, Skunk2 Throttle Body, ATi Super Damper, '95MSM SpeedHut Boost Gauge Mod, GREDDY Remote Oil Filter Relocation with Thermostat, Setrab Oil Cooler, BC Racing BR Series coilovers (8/6kg), 1.125" Racing Beat Tubular Sway Bar + Al Braces, 949racing SuperMiata end links, Carbing 3-pt shock tower brace, Nickel 6UL 15x8s, Toyo R1Rs 225/45/15, Wilwood Front BBK, SS Brake Lines, FM Frame Rails, Boss Frog "Frog Arms", MX5 Plus Twin Hoop Roll Bar, MiataRoadster long-angled SSK, Piano-Black Voodoo Knob&HandBrake, Innovate MTX-L Wideband O2 gauge+sensor, Lotus Probax seats + lots of "goes faster" chrome bling (since chrome reflects light, less of the colour spectrum is absorbed, making the car lighter - "pseudo-science" Smiley ).
Build Thread: http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=41091
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #189 on: April 15, 2012, 06:42:27 AM »

All very fair questions.  There were several reasons I went the path that I did.
1.  I happened across the wreck that became the donor chassis
2.  Several things from an MSM are desirable - especially the rear end and half shafts that are the strongest ever put in the first 15 model years.
3.  The black car had some good MSM specific go-fast bits that were not necessarily street friendly - specifically the whole hotside from the upgraded turbo back.
4.  Respect and admiration for '95MSM
5.  Loyalty to the group here - If I built just another turbo NA, it wouldn't be special at all and I'd really be neglecting our little family.

When I come across someone thinking about a track specific build that is considering an MSM, I always advise them to think twice.  The MSM is a special car and while it will never fetch 6 figures at a collectible auction, it is a shame to hack one up like the '90 is when you can get the same thing for less money from a base chassis and add an FMII or similar.  My situation was similar with the black car where it was getting too fast and too raw to enjoy.  On the track, it was getting too fast to be safe and it was only a matter of time before I wadded it up in a tire wall or worse.  On the street, it was like a thoroughbred giving pony rides.  It had no manners, no refinement and generally seemed to hate any kind of driving that you would do in front of a State Trooper.  As it was at the end of last season, my MSM was nothing but a series of compromises.   Cry

I had the pair of >$1,400 NAs and the red one was already prepped for the track.  My plan initially was to turbo the 1.6 (~240k mile short nose crank would have made a good story too).  When the wreck came along, too many things made sense.  I got lucky with the time/place and the rest is in the previous 13 pages.  It's been fun and my net investment in the tow vehicle, trailer, chassis and donor car is less than $5k.  That probably goes up to $6k if I pay myself $.25/hour for my labor buy who counts that?  laugh  Overall, what I have done isn't any more complicated than a typical 1.8 swap into an NA6.  The bare nature of the track car made a LOT of things simple and non-issues.

The '95MSM is really a completely different project.  We both have MSM drivetrains in NA chassis with upgraded turbos and ECUs.  That's really the end of the comparison.  Mark has integrated a full MSM/NB interior, air conditioning, power steering, Bose stereo and 100 other things I don't know or don't have time to list.  It is a work of art.  If the unthinkable ever happens to my black car... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2012, 07:34:42 AM »

I've been moving much more slowly on the project since the end of March.  I did one more track day at The Ridge Motorsports Park which is a completely new complex about 2 hours south of Seattle.  The track was awesome but my 250k mile, 22 year old 1.6 alternator died.  The 1.6 alternator (and all NAs) is self regulating.  All NBs alternators are controlled by the ECU so the NA alternator is standard issue for any track build with and aftermarket ECU.

I was coming down the front strait and got a miss under high load.  It was missing badly on the back half of the track and when I came off, it died.  I dropped the clutch and kept it running to the paddock space where it died again.  When I turned the key, it was dead as a doornail.  I used the jump pack to start the car again and read ~11.x volts at the alternator.  Day over.  No FLAPS had one in stock - the Mazda dealer didn't even have one.

There have been a few puzzling things since I got the car running.  I have calibrated the temperature sensor (water) twice and I still don't think it knows which way is up.  I finally let it idle in the garage and forced both FM forward thrust units fans to run for 5 minutes.  The temperature dropped to an indicated 204 and stayed there.  I took that to mean the 190* thermostat was holding me at 190* and set the ECU accordingly.  Hopefully, it is close enough.

The EBC has also been strange.  Travis helped me discover a glitch in the metric/imperial conversion table that caused part of the problem.  The rest of the problem seems to have been assuming the boost control settings from the MSM would translate perfectly.  The boost target for the MSM was around 12 to 13psi to save the motor.  The settings at work in the MSM appear to have simply grabbed the wastegate and pushed it to that level where simple boost creep took over.

The track car is going to run in the 15psi range and the EBC settings weren't able to get me close.  After changing several settings and doing a lot of tedious troubleshooting, I sent my map and a datalog to Travis who promptly set things back to the neck snapping base line.  Sure enough, it works!  Unfortunately, is was doing some fine tuning when the one piece of intake pipe that I didn't bead roll decided to go pop.   angry9  Oh well, I was running low on gas anyway.

I'm registered for an event in June at Oregon Raceway Park and plan to do several more days at the Ridge this year.  I will do a private date at Portland and two days at Pacific with the Alfa Romeo Club.  I like them because it is close to home and they don't care about passengers.  I love scaring passengers!

The next set of wrench hours is going to entail installing the oil cooler and working up some good ducting so I don't melt the stupid thing on track.  I'm going to need to look into some more gauges too.  I need to do oil temp and linearize the OEM water temp.  The OEM oil pressure gauge that is giving the wonky numbers should probably go too.  Oh, don't forget to bead roll that last bit of pipe.  15psi is only fun if you finish the session...  Tongue
Logged

2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
apalac01
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05 MSM GT


« Reply #191 on: May 17, 2012, 02:08:39 PM »

Nice video, I have never been to an actual road track but the track you were on in the video is my favorite track on Grand Turismo 1 to current. During your video when you shift it almost sounds like turbo flutter, or surge, correct me if I am wrong but isn't that bad for a turbo? The sound is amazing and I know you have done a number to the turbo side what is it? 
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05 Black MSM, OEM hard top, FMII conversion, Inconnel studs, Garrett GT2560R, FM crossflow, FM Stage 2 fans, MS3X, I.D. 1000cc  injectors, Hallman RX PRO MBC set at 10psi, Full FM exhaust, Ebay FMIC, Forge BOV, FAB 9 COP conversion, Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump, GTX PCV valve, Gates blue racing belts, EBC delete resistor mod, Racelands, FM frame brace, HDHCDD HT roll bar, HD harness bar, Schroth 4 point harness, Lotus Exige seats, TDR SS clutch line, Spec stage 3 clutch, Beatrush PPF bar, FM sway bars, Advanti Storm S1's 15x9's, 949's Adj. end links, Fog light grills, Buddy club cubby, LED map light, LED licence plate lights, Nautilus Stebel Air horn, Miata Roadster Short shifter, Innovate DL-32, MTX-D, LC-1, 2ea. XD-16's. for now.
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #192 on: May 17, 2012, 05:59:46 PM »

I changed the BOV signal source since that day and it calmed it down a lot. It's an HKS sequential so it will always sound ricey but seems to be ok now.
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
apalac01
Undercover go-kart
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 566


05 MSM GT


« Reply #193 on: May 18, 2012, 12:44:15 AM »

I would'nt call it ricey listening to a turbo spool and the sound of a DV or BOV is my kind of music.
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05 Black MSM, OEM hard top, FMII conversion, Inconnel studs, Garrett GT2560R, FM crossflow, FM Stage 2 fans, MS3X, I.D. 1000cc  injectors, Hallman RX PRO MBC set at 10psi, Full FM exhaust, Ebay FMIC, Forge BOV, FAB 9 COP conversion, Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump, GTX PCV valve, Gates blue racing belts, EBC delete resistor mod, Racelands, FM frame brace, HDHCDD HT roll bar, HD harness bar, Schroth 4 point harness, Lotus Exige seats, TDR SS clutch line, Spec stage 3 clutch, Beatrush PPF bar, FM sway bars, Advanti Storm S1's 15x9's, 949's Adj. end links, Fog light grills, Buddy club cubby, LED map light, LED licence plate lights, Nautilus Stebel Air horn, Miata Roadster Short shifter, Innovate DL-32, MTX-D, LC-1, 2ea. XD-16's. for now.
mr_hyde
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Posts: 7213


Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #194 on: June 12, 2012, 05:52:52 AM »

A few updates since I last checked in  cheesy.  Where to start???

I put the oil cooler in and installed an oil temperature gauge.  That took a bit of arranging in the instrument cluster.  We all know where the boost gauge goes.  Azn  I moved the oil pressure gauge to the fuel gauge position and fabricated a pod to house the OEM fuel gauge and placed it in the left eyeball vent that wasn't doing anything anyway.



I've made a lot of progress with the tuning.  The idle is mostly worked out with Travis' help and a bit of reading on my part.  It turns out, the Adaptronic has a few simple requirements in order to control the idle air control valve.  The most fundamental is the car must be in neutral or have the clutch switch engaged.  Sounds simple, right?  I didn't bother with a clutch switch because I don't expect to be sitting at many stoplights in this car.  I obediently hooked up the neutral switch when I installed the transmission which has been obediently talking to the 1.6 engine harness that doesn't have anything logical hooked to it.   buck2

After some quick wiring to an ECU input, neutral switch was working and the idle control settings started to function.  I goofed around with various settings for a few days and found a seldom discussed setting where the ignition table controls the P and D settings on close loop idle control.  Wow!  I honestly regret not working harder to make this ECU work in the street car.  I think I could have gotten near OEM quality with enough fine tuning.   Sad

I also figured out the boost control.  It seems a 14 psi setting that was in place on the MSM didn't really need much boost 'control' - after the initial spool, it was all creep holding the boost!  shockeyes  The new car doesn't seem to have that problem but the boost settings I had from the old map weren't even close.  Starting from scratch in open loop wastegate control was the path to success.  I spent an evening last week dialing things in.  One of the early pulls was a bit overestimated.  As the boost gauge swung past 20, I shot a glance at the AFR gauge.  It was steady at 11.5 so I kept my foot in it.  I've never been in anything that accelerate like that. dancenana  The top of 5th gear and the associated speed literally happened as fast as the top of 3rd gear in the ~200whp MSM.  500 pounds of curb weigh and a hundred extra ponies make that happen.  Holy crap!

I'm not going to run that hot most of the time.  I expect I will settle in around 17psi once I am confident all the supporting systems can handle it.  In talking to Travis, there is a new feature I will be adapting soon however.  It's called 'Push to Pass'.  Essentially, you have your EBC set to sane, sustainable levels normally and when a Corvette or Porsche needs a little bump draft to be convinced he needs to move over, you push a button on the wheel to call on a different setting.  drivingss  Oh yeah, I'm doing that!  angel1  Prepare for ludicrous speed!!

I did one additional, painful, obnoxious thing to '90MSM this week.  I installed the passenger seat so I can give rides to squealing, screaming people begging in alternating gasps to go faster and slow down.  Notice the BFH (Blunt Force Helper) in the foreground?  I hate installing seats...

Logged

2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
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