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Author Topic: Self Alignment  (Read 19198 times)
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ValorRacer
First Gear
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Posts: 36


Drives: 2005 Comptech SC S2000


« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2010, 01:48:31 PM »

Alignment:
1.drive to dealer.
2.sit and watch judge judy in the waiting area.
3.pay dealer 69.99 for alignment.
4.drive home happy 1 hour later.

why attempt that massive run-around mess and risk your 200 dollar a piece tires????
they make machines to get it right on, USE THEM.

1. Drive to a dealer
2. Drive away before they touch your car!
3. Drive to custom alignment shop that others have used successfully.
4. TELL THEM the alignment you want (not going to happen at a dealership).
5. Sit in the car (driver's seat) while the alignment is being done (if this isn't OK with your alignment guy go somewhere else)!
6. Test alignment on the way home.
7. Drive past dealership and laugh at customers watching Judge Judy!   dink

if a multi-billion dollar company's dealership cannot get you an alignment you require, they would be closed down. i doubt a little shop has a machine more advanced than the dealership that does some magical "David Blaine technique" that they have been keeping secret from the rest of the world...  rolleyes

they will put your caster, camber, tow all over the place if thats what you pay for. just gotta know what you want(if its anything other than oem).
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Woofster
I love humanity. It's people I can't stand!
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 4758


2005 MSM Ti #1255


« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2010, 04:21:47 PM »

Alignment:
1.drive to dealer.
2.sit and watch judge judy in the waiting area.
3.pay dealer 69.99 for alignment.
4.drive home happy 1 hour later.

why attempt that massive run-around mess and risk your 200 dollar a piece tires????
they make machines to get it right on, USE THEM.

1. Drive to a dealer
2. Drive away before they touch your car!
3. Drive to custom alignment shop that others have used successfully.
4. TELL THEM the alignment you want (not going to happen at a dealership).
5. Sit in the car (driver's seat) while the alignment is being done (if this isn't OK with your alignment guy go somewhere else)!
6. Test alignment on the way home.
7. Drive past dealership and laugh at customers watching Judge Judy!   dink

if a multi-billion dollar company's dealership cannot get you an alignment you require, they would be closed down. i doubt a little shop has a machine more advanced than the dealership that does some magical "David Blaine technique" that they have been keeping secret from the rest of the world...  rolleyes

they will put your caster, camber, tow all over the place if thats what you pay for. just gotta know what you want(if its anything other than oem).

I've been using the David Blaine alignment for years now.  Shhhh...it's a secret (that a professional alignment shop has crap equipment).  Also, some dealerships won't do anything but an OEM alignment!  They aren't interested (or potentially insured) in setting your specs.  Multi-billion dollar or not, read the threads right here about the poor mechanical service and shoddy work many experience at the dealership.  I can roll my eyes too!   Roll Eyes
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Hydra Nemesis; 550 injectors; Flying Miata Full Intake Kit w/MBC (MAFless) & GFB recirculating bypass valve; Flying Miata DP; Flying Miata Full Exhaust; FMIC 28X7X2.5; Fat Cat Motorsports Elites (single adjustable) 800/500; Racing Beat 1.25" Tubular Front Sway bar w/Brace Kit and Gearheads Gauge Adjustable endlinks; OEM 14mm rear sway bar; FM Frame Rails; HDHCDDHT Rollbar; Hard Dog Harness Bar; G-Force 6-Point Pull-Down Camlock Harness; Ultrashield Rally Sport Seat; Energy Suspension Diff Bushings; Carbotech XP10/XP8 Brake Pads;  Stainless Steel Brake Lines; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & BF Goodrich g-Force Rival (225/45/15) street; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier A6 (275/35/15) track; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier H2O (225/45/15) wet track; Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge; Thompson Nautilus Air Horn; Mobile 1 0W-30; Redline MT90; Redline 75W90; BEL-tronics Pro RX65. 1/20/08 190.06 HP @ 178.36 Max Torque (Need a new Dyno run because this is inaccurate with current mods!)
"Racing...is life!  Everything that happens before and after is just waiting."  -  Steve McQueen in Le Mans
SilverMiataRacer
Global Moderator
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Posts: 25931



WWW
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2010, 07:20:57 PM »

And I certainly don't let them adjust my tow.  That's what a tow truck is for.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
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ValorRacer
First Gear
*
Posts: 36


Drives: 2005 Comptech SC S2000


« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2010, 10:25:31 PM »

Alignment:
1.drive to dealer.
2.sit and watch judge judy in the waiting area.
3.pay dealer 69.99 for alignment.
4.drive home happy 1 hour later.

why attempt that massive run-around mess and risk your 200 dollar a piece tires????
they make machines to get it right on, USE THEM.

1. Drive to a dealer
2. Drive away before they touch your car!
3. Drive to custom alignment shop that others have used successfully.
4. TELL THEM the alignment you want (not going to happen at a dealership).
5. Sit in the car (driver's seat) while the alignment is being done (if this isn't OK with your alignment guy go somewhere else)!
6. Test alignment on the way home.
7. Drive past dealership and laugh at customers watching Judge Judy!   dink

if a multi-billion dollar company's dealership cannot get you an alignment you require, they would be closed down. i doubt a little shop has a machine more advanced than the dealership that does some magical "David Blaine technique" that they have been keeping secret from the rest of the world...  rolleyes

they will put your caster, camber, tow all over the place if thats what you pay for. just gotta know what you want(if its anything other than oem).

I've been using the David Blaine alignment for years now. 
well im sorry to hear that. at least i informed you of proper facility to get an alignment. no more "alignment shops" like Midas and no more plum-bobs and yarn. its a great day.  dink <-Whoa!, didnt know i could do that...
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VagaXt
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1285


I drive fast when I can, but I always drive well.


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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2010, 04:44:29 AM »

I'm going to say that if you are near my area, I can custom align and cornerweigh your car for you.  That's what I've been doing for the last year or so.  Smiley  Nothing like doing it yourself.
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#992/4000, The Ultimate Daily Driver



I've started my journey toward wheel-to-wheel racing. Follow my driving adventures on my BLOG.

Also, see it action on YouTube.

I'm getting lonely being the only MSM in competition. Join me in Miata Challenge!!

"Drive well, please."
ValorRacer
First Gear
*
Posts: 36


Drives: 2005 Comptech SC S2000


« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2010, 01:53:28 PM »

  Smiley  Nothing like doing it yourself.
i couldnt agree more. but there is something called "the point of diminishing return". and with the OP's extreme writeup over having a shop do it for you and saving all the hassle and run-around, thats just silly.

as for doing it yourself, im all about it. i am an avid engine/turbo/supercharger/builder with my own side business and extreme attention to detail and craftsmanship. no point in re-inventing the wheel ya know. i could cast my own block i suppose, but it wouldnt be anywhere near the oem one and it would take years of work and effort to do it.

but if you enjoy doing the work a machine can do for you in half the time and half the effort, go for it. while you're at it, lets go back to well pumps, hand crank engines and rotary telephones.  Grin
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relteschutte
First Gear
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Posts: 28


« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2011, 03:57:47 AM »

The problem is not the machine vs manual. It is about the standard shop not wanting to align it to anything other than what the comuputer tells them and then only set it till they get in the "green" zone for each measurement. After doing 3-4 alignments on different miatas and other cars in my family over a 6 month peroid, the last one at the Mazda dealership on my dad's 99. They ticked me off when they got mad when I requested that they at leasy set the settings to the same values left and right instead of just in the green. They wouldn't even give me a before and after printout, how do you even know they did anything then! My brother, dad and I went in together and got nice digital caster/camber gauges and toe plates after all that crap and have been educating ourselves ever since. It takes a while to learn, especially on the Miata where the combined changes on the camber bolts can make changes in all three parameters. Once you get the hang of it its not so bad.
I just really hate that you can't trust anyone these days to perform a descent job. That is why I spend way too much money on tools so I can do it all myself.
We had a local Franks Tire align my brothers FFR 65 Cobra Roadster a while back, just days before a weekend trip to Deals Gap. They messed up the toe so bad that it ate the inside tires down to the cords on the front in two days at the gap. Then they refused to compensate him or even do a re-alignment. We ended up taking it to another shop, don't remember how far it was out, but it was rediculous.
Now we do have a few local racing shops that will do a great job for around $200. I just figuired for less than 2 alignments we could get the tools and doo all the alignments and alignment checks we want for free.
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Rotary Heart
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 731


Piano is what I love, but cars are my passion.


« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2011, 07:20:27 AM »

Dam I hate you guys:'( I have asked in a few shops here in PR and they say its impossible!!!! And they don't even try it!!!! DAM POST PICS SO I CAN DO IT!!! I'm going crazy!! Pls someone help me out here english is my second lenguage and I can't understand 100% what the "how to" say!

I need an alignment pretty bad!
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Rotary burn to run...
Mazda for life...
Zoom Zoom...

Quote from: afc2112;1102245
^ I'm kinda glad you NB guys are the guinea pigs.

#292/4000, 2004-02-05
Rotary Heart
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 731


Piano is what I love, but cars are my passion.


« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2011, 02:55:22 AM »

Well this is some videos to know how to set up your car to make the alignment. I think that they can help.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/car-alignment-part-1_160184.htm

http://www.streetfire.net/video/car-alignment-part-2_160197.htm

http://www.streetfire.net/video/car-alignment-part-3_160212.htm
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Rotary burn to run...
Mazda for life...
Zoom Zoom...

Quote from: afc2112;1102245
^ I'm kinda glad you NB guys are the guinea pigs.

#292/4000, 2004-02-05
Masraum
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 525



« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2011, 04:33:02 AM »

There are some write ups, I think with picks over at miata.net.  Go over and do a search.  The method is the same for every NA and NB (maybe NC too, I'm not sure).  It's not hard, you just have to be thorough and detail oriented.

I would absolutely NOT have a dealer, NTB or similar place do my alignment unless I knew they had an enthusiast that would do it right.

I have gotten lots of alignments over the years.  Unless you hound them or take the car to the right place, what you get is "within spec" which is invariably crap.  The reason that it's crap is that the specs usually encompass a range, and as long as the guys get the numbers ANYWHERE within the range they will consider it "good"

I don't know what the factory describe specs are, but it would surise me if the front camber could be anything between +.25* and -.75* (which might be great if you're into NASCAR, but sucks if you want to enjoy driving).  Well, with those specs you could have positive camber on one front tire and negative on another and the dealer would consider it "good".  I consider that "crap".  Assuming that you'll get a good alignment at the dealer because they are the dealer is foolish to put it lightly.  I've known guys that worked at dealers.  I wouldn't want them to work on my car.
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Steve
2004 Mazdaspeed #1654(mine)
1999 Miata (hers)
1997 Miata (sold)
schmoo
MSM > Me
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Posts: 2275



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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2011, 06:11:23 PM »

ValorRacer,

Do you "get it" now?

We would all prefer to have it done at a good shop with the latest gear. However, given the choice between state of the art machines where they put it "within spec" and a 5 year old machine where they put it the way you want it, most of us will opt for option 2.

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Driver-Limited Canadian 2004 MSM Track Toy in Velocity Red | FM Big Enchilada w/Hydra 2.7, FM AFCO Coilovers, 15x9 6UL Gen2 & Advanti Storm, FM Anti-Roll Bars, Carbotech Pads, FM SS Lines, FM Racing Rad, FM Oil Cooler, Momo Lesmo One Seat, Schroth Profi 2 Harness, HDHCDD M2 Hardtop with Harness Bar, AiM MXL Pro with Smartycam HD GP, Gutted Interior
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Woofster
I love humanity. It's people I can't stand!
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 4758


2005 MSM Ti #1255


« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2011, 07:02:16 PM »

ValorRacer,

Do you "get it" now?

Valor hasn't been active since November of 2010.  He probably was killed after driving on a dealership performed OEM alignment!   2funny
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Hydra Nemesis; 550 injectors; Flying Miata Full Intake Kit w/MBC (MAFless) & GFB recirculating bypass valve; Flying Miata DP; Flying Miata Full Exhaust; FMIC 28X7X2.5; Fat Cat Motorsports Elites (single adjustable) 800/500; Racing Beat 1.25" Tubular Front Sway bar w/Brace Kit and Gearheads Gauge Adjustable endlinks; OEM 14mm rear sway bar; FM Frame Rails; HDHCDDHT Rollbar; Hard Dog Harness Bar; G-Force 6-Point Pull-Down Camlock Harness; Ultrashield Rally Sport Seat; Energy Suspension Diff Bushings; Carbotech XP10/XP8 Brake Pads;  Stainless Steel Brake Lines; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & BF Goodrich g-Force Rival (225/45/15) street; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier A6 (275/35/15) track; 15X9 6ULS (Nickel) & Hoosier H2O (225/45/15) wet track; Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge; Thompson Nautilus Air Horn; Mobile 1 0W-30; Redline MT90; Redline 75W90; BEL-tronics Pro RX65. 1/20/08 190.06 HP @ 178.36 Max Torque (Need a new Dyno run because this is inaccurate with current mods!)
"Racing...is life!  Everything that happens before and after is just waiting."  -  Steve McQueen in Le Mans
Masraum
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 525



« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2011, 07:07:03 PM »

Someone on m.net posted scans of the factory workshop manual's pages showing the factory recommended settings for the 2004 Miata and MSM.  The MSM settings are different.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=5056046&postcount=3

Here are the settings

front
toein .12" (±.16")  -- (acceptible range .04" toe out to .28" toe in)
caster 6°18' (±1°) -- (acceptible range 5°18' - 7°18')
Camber -0°10' (±1°) -- (acceptible range +.9° - -1.16°)  

Can you imagine if you had almost a full degree positive on one side and a full degree negative on the other?  ouch, handling would be horrific!!


rear

toein .12" (±.16")
camber -1° (±1°) -- (acceptible, yeah, you could have 0° on one side, and -2° on the other and still be completely within spec)

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Steve
2004 Mazdaspeed #1654(mine)
1999 Miata (hers)
1997 Miata (sold)
Masraum
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 525



« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2011, 07:09:14 PM »

Valor hasn't been active since November of 2010.  He probably was killed after driving on a dealership performed OEM alignment!   2funny

We've all heard the stories about wrecked S2000s.  According to his sig, that's what he was driving last.  And it was supercharged no less.
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Steve
2004 Mazdaspeed #1654(mine)
1999 Miata (hers)
1997 Miata (sold)
mic5423
Fourth Gear
****
Posts: 266


« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2013, 08:06:08 PM »

I know this thread is old, buy I found this article which seems to be thorough... WITH PICS!!!!  cheesy

http://www.quadesl.com/miata_alignment.html
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One day im gonna get a cat and name him "His Highness Bernard Williamson IV of Nottinghamshirelandsburgville". Ill just call him Fred for short.
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