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Author Topic: Exhaust Leak **pics** apparently common  (Read 45025 times)
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Canyonfive
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2012, 08:58:13 PM »

by tightening the bolt i got 3 more mpg. 25 now incl combo city/ hwy with nothing special. Before when i tried to just milk it along eg; no boost it got as low as 22.29 averaging  22.9.

wonder what will happen when i have all the bolts in  laugh
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Ebay IC, Custome Koni 2812's by Guy Akney, FM Intake, FM DP, Hallman Pro Rx @ 10psi, GFB VTA BOV, Carbotech Brake Pads F/R, 15 X 10 Custom Wheels, Hooiser A7's,  Memory Fab/ lotus seats , Custom from sway bar , Muffler Delete, Hydra 2.7 EMS Launch Control Flat shift E85 , 550RC's, Fuel Lab fuel filter,
Canyonfive
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 10:34:12 PM »



broken stud. Recommend tools? Do i need to remove the line to the heater core to get it to fit?
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My BSP build thread
Ebay IC, Custome Koni 2812's by Guy Akney, FM Intake, FM DP, Hallman Pro Rx @ 10psi, GFB VTA BOV, Carbotech Brake Pads F/R, 15 X 10 Custom Wheels, Hooiser A7's,  Memory Fab/ lotus seats , Custom from sway bar , Muffler Delete, Hydra 2.7 EMS Launch Control Flat shift E85 , 550RC's, Fuel Lab fuel filter,
jkjeer
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2012, 11:50:22 PM »

If you can punch the center of the stud, you can use a left-hand drill bit and an easy-out type of extractor. 

This one is difficult because you can't see in the hole when you try to punch it.
If you punch the stud off-center or drill it off-center you run the risk of buggering the threads in the head.

The brake master cylinder blocks access for a normal drill so you you need a right-angle drill or a tight-quarters drill and you're operating blind.
I do plan to drain the coolant and remove the heater hoses and probably the dipstick.


Might be worth removing the master cylinder from the brake booster so you could see better and have a straight shot at the stud but you still can't really get your head down in there.


So assuming you got it punched in the center and drilled straight, you need to run the extractor in through the manifold hole.
That means you will be limited to a smaller (long and narrow) extractor like this:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=635468&group_ID=675456&store=&dir=catalog
and can't use the multi-spline ones that I prefer.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=675457&store=snapon-store

You have to be careful that the extractor doesn't break off in the stud.
If that happens then the head probably needs to come off and go the machinist.

I might try a sleeve or a drill-guide for the manifold stud hole to center the punch and the drill bit.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=675460&store=snapon-store
I'm going to try to find something suitable by this weekend.
I'll let you know if it works.

I've hit everything with PBBlaster and I ordered some Kroil.
Since I just did the FM DP a couple weeks ago I know that will come off easily.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the manifold (and the turbo) and replace all the studs and the manifold gasket.
I figure I have a lot better chance of extracting the broken stud if I can see what I'm doing.
I also am concerned that the other studs have now been under extra stress from operating with one missing.

I ordered the whole set of 9 studs and the turbo exhaust gasket and the oil hard line gaskets and four studs between the turbo and the manifold.
I also ordered a timing belt kit since I have 76,000 miles and I might as well do that while I'm in there.
I've read up on the turbo removal here and it sounds like a lot of work l but I think I'd feel better doing it that way than just replacing the broken stud (assuming it comes out OK).

I plan to take a lot of pictures which ever way I go and write it up.
Anybody have any opinions on which way to proceed?
Anybody want to place their bets?
 dink
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2005 VR GT, Rev-built MegaSquirt 3, FIC 650, Toyota COPs, JoeMazda CAI, Hallman MBC @ 12.5 psi, AEM Uego WB O2, FM DP/Exhaust, eBay FMIC, 225/45-15 BFG Rivals on Advanti 15x9, FM V-Maxx XXtreme Coilovers, 3.63 gears, ES Poly susp & diff bushings, MR SS Clutch Line, 949 SS Brake Lines, Mishimoto 55mm Rad, XTM5QS, MR Delrin Shifter Bushing, '95MSM SpeedHut Boost Gauge Mod, Linear Temp-Gauge Mod, Oil-Pressure LED, Audiovox Cruise Control, Bosectomy, Focal 6.5 Door speakers, 8" Rear Deck Subs, JL Audio Amp, Factory Hard-top, BadBoy WOLO Horn
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 12:32:33 AM »

The ''trick'' my machinist dad taught me was to center-punch dead center if possible.  Then drill first with a relatively small bit followed by successively larger bits till you think you are near the threads.  An easy-out will now work easier and you don't have to tap it in so hard.  Much less chance of snapping off the ''easy-out'' also.

On rare occasions I've drilled broken studs out so perfectly that all I had to do was use a dental type pick to get the stud remnants out of the threads. Cool

YMMV Smiley
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2004 MSM #256,Ti, GT, hard top, MRSS, Custom Shift Knob, BF Clearview, L.E.B. 115db horn, SH boost/vac gauge, SH shift light, Hallman Pro RX. Valentine One w/remote display.  FM O2 Mod.  FM dp, Corksport 80mm catback. Motorcraft synthetic trans fluid.  Larger  FMIC (Ebay),  FM intake kit, Innovate A/F gauge, Innovate water temp gauge 
mr_hyde
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2012, 05:33:56 AM »

For turbo removal (you may have read this):

Get the 10mm swivel socket from Sears and the little magnet adapters that go in them - they come in a kit on the same tool wall.  This is critical for the two bolts (studs go into the pan) that hold on the lower oil drain tube.  Leave the tube:turbo fasteners in place.  The drain line with flex a LITTLE but if you move it a lot, it will crack and you probably won't know it until you install it and fire everything up.  Don't do that - you don't want to get too good at this...  buck2
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
Canyonfive
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2012, 08:45:08 PM »

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/58-forced-induction-sponsored-kraftwerks-usa/29150-my-mazdaspeed-mx5-turbocharger-r-r.html

after reading this it seems i can take the manifold off without removing the turbo?
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Ebay IC, Custome Koni 2812's by Guy Akney, FM Intake, FM DP, Hallman Pro Rx @ 10psi, GFB VTA BOV, Carbotech Brake Pads F/R, 15 X 10 Custom Wheels, Hooiser A7's,  Memory Fab/ lotus seats , Custom from sway bar , Muffler Delete, Hydra 2.7 EMS Launch Control Flat shift E85 , 550RC's, Fuel Lab fuel filter,
udelslayer
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 10:42:18 PM »

I get to join this club.  Yay, thanks mazda-speed.com for making me so paranoid.

I have the same soot marks at cyl 4 on the top.  I dont know how long this has gone on.  I hope none of these things shear off.  I'd feel much better though if I replace the gasket and all the studs/bolts but that looks like it would open a different can of worms.  better fuel economy would be nice.
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HELLIONMX5
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2012, 04:57:21 PM »



broken stud. Recommend tools? Do i need to remove the line to the heater core to get it to fit?

this is what i want to avoid...
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formerly hiddenmazda... Thanks to Gary, I'm not hidden anymore!
2005 MSM #1153 a.k.a Blackout
konig feathers Black 12.4lbs/205/50/15 kumho asx/custom 3" Enthuza XR/custom 2.5" - 3" enthuza midpipe/black razr grill from the grill guy/20% tint all around including windshield/sun visor delete/cool breeze scoop/"baby Teeth" delete/Dragon tattoos (from the 3 trips to MATG 13,14,and 15)/drilled and slotted rotors/PBR/Axxis Metal Master(XBG)/black decepticon tire valves/FMDP/Mako Shark Teeth/plastidip blacked out emblems, Joe's Maf reloc kit+MBC, fab9 COPs, eBay FMIC, carbonmiata silicon hoses, led foglights, aux in mod. FM stage2 fans, Koyo 37mm radiator. CHEVYSPEED-MSM/W LSX V8 (1 DAY)
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jkjeer
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2012, 05:31:25 AM »

Well I removed the exhaust manifold and turbo.  I punched the broken stud and drilled it out.  I applied an extractor and it wouldn't budge.  The broken stud is seriously seized even after applying SiliKroil and a Mapp torch.  I really didn't want to snap the extractor off so I chickened out.  I was able to double-nut and remove 7 of the nine intact studs.

I removed the head today and dropped it off at a local machine shop called Headwerks.  They will remove the broken stud and resurface the head no problem.  I'll edit down my photos and post them.

Question for the experts, the square gasket that goes between the exhaust manifold and the turbo looks to be in good condition and apparently is quite expensive.  Has anyone successfully reused that gasket?

Thanks
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2005 VR GT, Rev-built MegaSquirt 3, FIC 650, Toyota COPs, JoeMazda CAI, Hallman MBC @ 12.5 psi, AEM Uego WB O2, FM DP/Exhaust, eBay FMIC, 225/45-15 BFG Rivals on Advanti 15x9, FM V-Maxx XXtreme Coilovers, 3.63 gears, ES Poly susp & diff bushings, MR SS Clutch Line, 949 SS Brake Lines, Mishimoto 55mm Rad, XTM5QS, MR Delrin Shifter Bushing, '95MSM SpeedHut Boost Gauge Mod, Linear Temp-Gauge Mod, Oil-Pressure LED, Audiovox Cruise Control, Bosectomy, Focal 6.5 Door speakers, 8" Rear Deck Subs, JL Audio Amp, Factory Hard-top, BadBoy WOLO Horn
Canyonfive
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2012, 07:16:56 PM »

Did you drill all the way through the stud? how big did you go on the hole?
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Ebay IC, Custome Koni 2812's by Guy Akney, FM Intake, FM DP, Hallman Pro Rx @ 10psi, GFB VTA BOV, Carbotech Brake Pads F/R, 15 X 10 Custom Wheels, Hooiser A7's,  Memory Fab/ lotus seats , Custom from sway bar , Muffler Delete, Hydra 2.7 EMS Launch Control Flat shift E85 , 550RC's, Fuel Lab fuel filter,
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2012, 05:15:50 AM »

I've reused that gasket successfully, but my car only sees hard driving on the street. I've reused the head to manifold gasket back when the car was normally aspirated.  I haven't had the exhaust manifold off of my MSM engine, so no experience on that gasket with the turbo manifold.

YMMV, depending on how you use your car.

Oops - correction time: when I pulled the turbo to port the wastegate I DID pull the manifold off and re-use the gasket.  It has been okay for 25k miles.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 05:17:32 AM by '95MSM » Logged

'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
mr_hyde
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2012, 08:45:47 AM »

Question for the experts, the square gasket that goes between the exhaust manifold and the turbo looks to be in good condition and apparently is quite expensive.  Has anyone successfully reused that gasket?

I have reused mine in several R&Rs.  The MSM has been fine both track and street.  '90MSM was fine too until I got frisky at the last track day and turned the magic knob to ~18psi.  That blew it out immediately.  I was very happy to get back to the paddock and realize that was all that was leaking.

On a related note, none of the big-boy turbo miata guys run a gasket there.  A friend had an older FMII and had the gasket get sucked into the turbine causing catastrophic damage.  I'm going to just have the two surfaces decked and skip the gasket for the track car now.
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
jkjeer
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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2012, 04:38:30 PM »

Thanks for the replies. 
I had already gone ahead and ordered the turbo gasket so I'll replace it.  Don't want to have to this again soon.

I drilled the stud with a 1/4 inch bit and used a #4 extractor.  I used a depth stop on my bit so I got very close to the full depth of the stud but I don't know if I went all the way through it. 


I had one intact stud that I just could not get out so the machine shop will pull that one too. 


When I saw how solidly seized that one was, I decided not to push my luck on the extractor.


So I'll put it back together next weekend.
Meanwhile, I'm doing the water pump, coolant hoses, competition motor mounts and a Bosectomy with sound proofing.

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2005 VR GT, Rev-built MegaSquirt 3, FIC 650, Toyota COPs, JoeMazda CAI, Hallman MBC @ 12.5 psi, AEM Uego WB O2, FM DP/Exhaust, eBay FMIC, 225/45-15 BFG Rivals on Advanti 15x9, FM V-Maxx XXtreme Coilovers, 3.63 gears, ES Poly susp & diff bushings, MR SS Clutch Line, 949 SS Brake Lines, Mishimoto 55mm Rad, XTM5QS, MR Delrin Shifter Bushing, '95MSM SpeedHut Boost Gauge Mod, Linear Temp-Gauge Mod, Oil-Pressure LED, Audiovox Cruise Control, Bosectomy, Focal 6.5 Door speakers, 8" Rear Deck Subs, JL Audio Amp, Factory Hard-top, BadBoy WOLO Horn
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2012, 05:19:40 PM »

If the head is on the way to the shop, this is moot, but the larger hole you drill into the stud, the better your chances for extraction are.  This obviously requires the hole to be as close to centered as possible, and that isn't always an easy task.  If you get it dead-center, you can keep enlarging the hole until the stud threads are barely connected together, then use a pick or other sharp instrument between the female threads and the stud, collapsing the stud "shell" inwards.

Even if you stop short of turning the stud into a thin shell w/ threads, the easy-out will be able to distort what is left of the stud and get it to back out.
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'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
jkjeer
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2012, 05:26:30 PM »

Thanks for the advice. 
I follow what you're saying but I chickened out.
It's really hard to work on the head back there and I didn't trust my ability to keep drilling it straight and not bugger the threads.
It really is a bad location to work on.
I trust the shop I took it to and the cost shouldn't be too bad and the head will be resurfaced so I guess the peace of mind is worth it.
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2005 VR GT, Rev-built MegaSquirt 3, FIC 650, Toyota COPs, JoeMazda CAI, Hallman MBC @ 12.5 psi, AEM Uego WB O2, FM DP/Exhaust, eBay FMIC, 225/45-15 BFG Rivals on Advanti 15x9, FM V-Maxx XXtreme Coilovers, 3.63 gears, ES Poly susp & diff bushings, MR SS Clutch Line, 949 SS Brake Lines, Mishimoto 55mm Rad, XTM5QS, MR Delrin Shifter Bushing, '95MSM SpeedHut Boost Gauge Mod, Linear Temp-Gauge Mod, Oil-Pressure LED, Audiovox Cruise Control, Bosectomy, Focal 6.5 Door speakers, 8" Rear Deck Subs, JL Audio Amp, Factory Hard-top, BadBoy WOLO Horn
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