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Author Topic: Ugh, Another Bog Thread, But Please Help  (Read 8113 times)
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OregonVR
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Posts: 57



« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2013, 08:59:29 PM »

Does anyone know the model number to those NGK's that FM sells? Their item number 04-56201 doesn't appear to be NGK's model number and I'm not finding a V-power plug with green font "NGK R" in my searching on Advance Auto or AutoZone. Thanks.

Pretty sure they are extended tip NGK  ZFR6F-11    4291.

There were a few local auto parts stores in my area that had them in stock. 

Bought mine from NAPA and gapped them to 0.028 (so they will last longer)...per the wise Mr. SilverMiataRacer!   Smiley
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#2987/4000 | ’04 VR purchased 4/12 with 17,800 | Potenza RE76 Sports | Autometer 4301 Boost Gauge | Redline MT-90 | Flying Miata Full Intake Kit 02 w/TurboSmart BOV & MBC | O2 Mod | Nautilus Air horn.
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2013, 09:24:23 PM »

That's them
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
justin4192
Second Gear
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Posts: 91



« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2013, 09:27:37 PM »

Here's an update. My local AdvanceAuto had the plugs in stock, so I picked them up yesterday and installed them today. I went for a short test drive afterward and the surging/hesitation was not as regular as it was before. I actually got into boost quite a bit without any symptoms. There were a few times it did and here is a video to show what happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMF80F--9po
The first surge was more mild, but does show how RPM hold steady and the engine hesitates. As you can see with the counter, it was 5 seconds of hesitation, then the engine had power. The second surge was quite violent and I didn't want to hold the throttle. These are the symptoms I was consistently getting whenever I hit boost. Today, it wasn't nearly as consistent as it has been.

The good news is it might actually be fixed now. After this video, I drove back to AA and had them test my battery. Sure enough, its CCA was very low and even this morning when I first cranked it up, I could tell the battery was lower on juice. I went ahead and installed a new battery. I drove just a few miles, but hit boost as much as I could and that surging/hesitation never came up. Also, the CEL has not come back on yet since replacing the battery. I'll drive it more this week and hopefully find that this problem is fixed. Time and miles will tell.
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2004 MSM Titanium - FM Downpipe - FM Intake - Corksport 80mm Cat-back Exhaust - HKS SSQV Recirculating Valve - Blitz Turbo Timer/Boost Gauge - FM O2 Mod - Hardtop- HIDs
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2013, 09:37:48 PM »

Did you try charging the battery like was suggested??  Did you have the terminator tested?  I've NEVER seen a case of a Miata with a battery strong enough to start the car be too weak to run the engine properly.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
justin4192
Second Gear
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Posts: 91



« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2013, 10:37:11 PM »

I didn't think charging the battery would do any good if I've been driving the car regularly and the alternator is charging it. I'm pretty sure it was the original battery and as a 2004, I think 8-9 years is a good lifespan. AA had 20% off everything this weekend, so I figured now was a good time to get a battery anyway. What do you mean by having the terminator tested?
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2004 MSM Titanium - FM Downpipe - FM Intake - Corksport 80mm Cat-back Exhaust - HKS SSQV Recirculating Valve - Blitz Turbo Timer/Boost Gauge - FM O2 Mod - Hardtop- HIDs
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2013, 10:54:05 PM »

Well that's the point.  A Miata battery might not charge by driving it regularly.  The alternator isn't huge and the battery isn't huge and if you do a lot of short trips the battery falls behind on it's charge level and might not catch up.

That wasn't terminator it was supposed to be alternator but the spellchecker helped me out!   rolleyes

Did you get an AGM battery?  Or did they put one it that "fits"?

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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
justin4192
Second Gear
**
Posts: 91



« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2013, 11:24:58 PM »

No, turns out it is not an AGM battery, but it's a direct fit and lots of Miata owners recommend it in the reviews. I installed it myself because they said they weren't allowed due to what they thought was a more complex installation procedure. It was easy and I connected up the new vent lines.

No, didn't get the alternator tested.

Anyway, even if I did charge the battery and if it did improve, that is still odd. Have you seen a Miata surge like it shows in my video? I'm puzzled by it and didn't think the battery would be the cause.
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2004 MSM Titanium - FM Downpipe - FM Intake - Corksport 80mm Cat-back Exhaust - HKS SSQV Recirculating Valve - Blitz Turbo Timer/Boost Gauge - FM O2 Mod - Hardtop- HIDs
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2013, 11:35:18 PM »

No which is why I'm doubtful about it.

I hope the battery is at least vented if you didn't install a direct replacement.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
yenadar
2005 #36 Black Mica
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1169


« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 12:44:15 AM »

justin, when I was getting my misfire shortly after purchase it was EXACTLY the same as in the video. Abrupt lurching that was quiet alarming. Initially it was only like once here and there under full boost and higher load (like a long hill climb, I have several in my commute through the mountains). But over the next 2 weeks it got progressively worse and I started hunting for what it was. I finally got a misfire code, grabbed a set of plugs, gapped them, installed them, and I have never seen it since.

If you are still getting that, I'd bet you are still misfiring, only maybe not quite so much. Did you gap them to 0.028ish? The gap that they come with is already borderline too wide. If you have gapped them right, then I'd hunt for other areas that could cause the misfire, including the crank angle sensor, the cam angle sensor, and anything that might interfere with either. They are magnets after all, and if you get a stray bit of metal stuck to them it can mess up the profile slightly.

As an example from my experience:
My 99 Miata had a belt issue that I didn't catch on one of the engine replacements, and it started the belt fraying. The metal content in the belt plus the belt whipping across the crank angle sensor was causing almost exactly the same problem as it was yanking fuel and spark momentarily with a wacked out profile suddenly as the belt fray would hit it. Diagnosed it on the road, swung into a parts store, grabbed a replacement belt, did the change in the parking lot in about 10 minutes and it was gone for good.
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Keeping the MSM for the forseeable future.
Last mod: FM2 2560 conversion
justin4192
Second Gear
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Posts: 91



« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 01:00:32 AM »

Thanks Yenadar, glad to hear someone else has experience with this lurching. Yes, I did gap the plugs down to .028". I looked at my belts this morning when I installed the plugs, but didn't see any fraying. I'm not familiar with the crank and cam angle sensors, but will look into them. I plan to be driving the car the next couple days and will post how she runs.
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2004 MSM Titanium - FM Downpipe - FM Intake - Corksport 80mm Cat-back Exhaust - HKS SSQV Recirculating Valve - Blitz Turbo Timer/Boost Gauge - FM O2 Mod - Hardtop- HIDs
justin4192
Second Gear
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Posts: 91



« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2013, 05:18:21 PM »

Update: Still has hesitation/bogging. Yesterday I drove to one of my other offices that takes me on the highway. I had a terrible time accelerating to merge into traffic. I had to accelerate slowly, very light on the gas to stay in vacuum pressure, otherwise I had zero power; not what you want when merging.  I experienced the hesitation all throughout my commute. This really sucks. No CEL yet. I still need to look into the crank and cam angle sensors. Any other ideas? Should I look into testing my fuel pressure? Can these be symptoms of needing to replace the fuel filter or pump? It's weird that sometimes it does feed it all the fuel it seems it needs, just has this bad hesitation.

One of my next tests will be to unplug the TPS. I'll report how that goes.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 05:24:14 PM by justin4192 » Logged

2004 MSM Titanium - FM Downpipe - FM Intake - Corksport 80mm Cat-back Exhaust - HKS SSQV Recirculating Valve - Blitz Turbo Timer/Boost Gauge - FM O2 Mod - Hardtop- HIDs
thomsoad
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1653



« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2013, 05:45:59 PM »

Im just throwing this out here as a possiblilty.
I use to have a MX3 back in the day and one day it started to have hesitation isssues.
Ended up being the motor mounts getting worn out and causing a problem between the engine and some sensor.
I only bring this up becuz you mention taking of the shock brace and you are getting thin on solutions.
Just wanted to give you something to consider.
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Previous MSM: 2004 TI; FM LE; Falken FK452s

Current MSM: GT Mica;
SUSPENSION/TRANSMISSION: 215/45/17 Pilot Super Sports; Tein Street Advance Coilovers; FM Happy Meal Level 1 System; GarageStar door bushings; MR short shifter
ENGINE: FM Wiseco Pistons; Carrillo A rods; ARP studs; ATI Super Damper; Mazdaspeed competition motor mounts; oversized intake valves, oversized Inconel exhaust valves, ACL Race bearings , FM valve springs; 700CC Deatschwerks injectors:  NGK plugs; Magnecor 8.5s .
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Upgraded Blouche turbo, FM Intake, FM full Exhaust, FM Intercooler
ECU: Hydra 2.7
MISCELLANEOUS:  Autometer Boost Gauge; Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control, Motorcraft transmission fluid, Mobil 1 differential fluid, Castrol Platinum Synthetic Motor oil.

DYNOPACK RESULTS:
WHP: 256 @ 6141 rpm
TORQUE (lb/ft): 267.0 @ 4105 rpm
BOOST (PSI): 15.46 @ 4120 rpm
                     14.00 @ 3750 rpm

My MSM: Street...with attitude. Smiley
justin4192
Second Gear
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Posts: 91



« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2013, 03:08:35 AM »

I think I have found the cause. On Monday I decided to disconnect the blue wire from the FM O2 Mod vacuum switch. See in the install guide, there are two yellow and one blue attached to the pressure switch: http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/instructions/ecu/O2%20pressure%20switch.pdf. I was running out of ideas, but figured this is a simple test even though I previously tested the O2 mod voltage. I took it for a drive and never once experienced any hesitation. I drove it to work on Tuesday, no problems. I drove half way home without any signs, then pulled over, shut off the engine and reconnected that blue wire to the switch. It took a few minutes, but then sure enough, the problem returned the rest of my way home. I went for another quick ride to pick up my wife at the metro and it had the symptoms. While waiting for her to arrive, I disconnected the switch and on the short drive home, no problem. I then left it disconnected today with a longer commute and never once had a problem!

So, either the O2 mod has malfunctioned or somehow came out of calibration after 4-5 years of use. As I previously said, I tested the voltage at open atmosphere pressure, which should be the same as boost and got readings in the 0.3v range they say in the instructions. As soon as I reconnect the vacuum hose to the switch while at idle, I hear the switch click; that is why I'm assuming my 0.3v reading should be the same as in boost. I'm going to look more thoroughly at my O2 mod installation and voltage measurements sometime and maybe talk to FM. In the meantime, the car is fun to drive again and I can actually use the gas pedal without worrying about damaging the engine or getting run into.

Has anyone had their O2 mod get out of calibration over time? Does this make sense or is disconnecting only the blue wire hiding something else?
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2004 MSM Titanium - FM Downpipe - FM Intake - Corksport 80mm Cat-back Exhaust - HKS SSQV Recirculating Valve - Blitz Turbo Timer/Boost Gauge - FM O2 Mod - Hardtop- HIDs
mrmohr2
First Gear
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Posts: 1


« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2015, 05:24:04 AM »

Did you ever figure out this issue.
You have described, my car exactly!  I have read other places and nobody has the exact symptoms that I have except you.
I tried cleaning the solenoid, with virtually no results. 
I have the FM High Performance Intake and manual boost controler, and O2 mod.  Sometimes the motor will pull smoothly from 4000 to 6500, but most of the time it hesitates as boost comes on.  Sometimes for several seconds.  Boost continues to build but power does not.  Suddenly power comes on all at once, and life is good until I need to shift (which is fairly soon with a 6 speed).

Were you ever able to reinstall the O2 mod?  My problems have started days after the O2 mod.  I called FM, but they said I was getting "The Bog".  But I am thinking it is the O2 mod itself.  If I disconnect the vacuum line to the O2 mod, it still behaves the same.  I'm going to disconnect the O2 mod tomorrow to see if that will help.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Mike
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 05:56:38 AM by mrmohr2 » Logged
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2015, 09:56:37 AM »

What you have is not the Bog but the "normal" hesitation from the bad design of the ECU.  This is what the O2 sensor should at least help make better.  You either have the O2 mod installed wrong, a bad O2 mod, or a very bad example of our ECU.

Start by verifying your O2 install paying attention to the vacuum line connection.  Make sure it's installed on the correct port on the O2 mod as this is a typical mistake.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
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