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Author Topic: 15" wheel tire package or 17" tires?  (Read 7745 times)
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wuchao1
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« on: March 14, 2013, 05:05:03 AM »

Hi guys,
I know this has been talked many times but please bear with me here.
I will soon be needing to change my tires and I have my mind set on the new ZII.

Its $876 on Tirerack for a set of 15x7 TRM C1 (12.8lb) plus a set of 195/50/15 ZII and $668 for a set of 215/40/17 ZIIs on oem RH wheels.

I know smaller wheels will save weight and also give a better ride and handling but is it really that much of a difference?

I drive the car a lot and I am planning on going to a road trip to Irvine, CA during summer. I will also try to attend every open track day around my area this season.

I will have to sell the car this September because I will be leaving the country.

Now my questions:
*Should I spend $876 on the whole set of 15" to have the benefit of lighter weight and better ride/handling for daily driving/some track use or save the $200 difference for a Megan Racing down pipe which is $206 shipped and just put the ZII on the oem RH wheels?

*I know the ZII is really new, but how about the Z1's tread wear? I mean, will it be able to do some daily driving + ~4 to 7 Track days + a 5k mile cross country interstate road trip and still have some useable tread left? (Around ~7000 miles in total til I sell the car this Sep.)

*And is the Megan down pipe any good?

*Is there any other tire recommendations if the ZII is not a good tire for my driving need?

The car has FM complete intake kit and a muffler delete with a turn down pipe, everything else is stock. And Im only plan on adding a FMIC and maybe the downpipe if its any good. 

PS: Im still a student and the $200 difference is a big difference to me.

Thank you for taking your time reading this and any advise is great!

-Raymond
 
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04 VR #3271. FM Complete Intake. XP8. SS Lines. Muffler Delete. HD Ace. ZII 215/45/17. 5000k HID.
bigx5murf
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 05:55:53 AM »

to be honest, if you're dead set on z2 tires, I'd take the wider ones over the 15" 195 setup, that just sounds way too narrow.  Most of us who go 15" wheels do it to run 205-225 width tires for the sake of performance.  There just aren't any wider street tires available for us that we can fit w/o major mods.

The megan dp is basically just a SS ebay downpipe.  I've been running one for 15k miles, drove cross country, no problems.  I did have to stack the stock gasket with the supplied one to seal without exhaust leaks.  I did use an o2 sensor extension to keep from getting a CEL.  I've tried it by itself on stock exhaust, and it was barely louder than stock at idle, and noticeably more burble at wot.  It will smell like it's running really rich though.

As for the z2 being a good tire, that really depends on your climate.  They won't be the best in the rain because of the big thread blocks, and minimal passages for water.  But the originals weren't bad in the rain, and they've supposedly improved rain performance in the z2.  They will slip and slide in the cold, abs will be really easy to engage if it's below freezing out, even when dry.  Snow driving will be a lot of getting stuck, and deadly when moving.
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barmato
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 10:22:53 AM »

I agree with bigx5murf, if you're going to run 15's, definitely go with at least a 205.

Are you still in stock suspension?  If so you might want to just stick with the 17's. The 15's just don't look right at stock ride height.
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wuchao1
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 02:37:23 PM »

Yes Ill be keeping the stock suspension. Is it suppose to really jack the car up like a 4x4 if put 15" on stock suspensions? I ask when I had 15" winter tires on it actually looks like it was sitting lower.

And it was my mistake on saying the 195, I meant to say 205 on 15s or even 215s.

I live in Michigan and Ill only be using the tires from around now til September cuz I will have to sell the car by then. But I do plan on driving it cross country.. So I was actually curious about how long can the tread last?

But as for the megan dp, bigx5murf, does it create any noticeable performance gain? Or its more for the sound? I have muffler delete and was debating if I should just run stock dp with a straight pipe after it or get the Megan and then run a straight pipe after?

Thanks for all the help!!
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04 VR #3271. FM Complete Intake. XP8. SS Lines. Muffler Delete. HD Ace. ZII 215/45/17. 5000k HID.
Maduh
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 02:46:34 PM »

Is this even a question? Go 15" wheels always.  afro
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rstange1
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 02:50:05 PM »


I will have to sell the car this September because I will be leaving the country.

PS: Im still a student and the $200 difference is a big difference to me.

I'm a big fan of 15" wheels on NA and NB Miatas, but based on the two statements above I would keep the 17s for sure. Six months from now you won't have the car, it will be easier to sell with the OEM wheels on the car, and you'll have a bit of extra cash in the interim.
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'05 Ti MSM with: Flyin' Miata Downpipe, Midpipe, Exhaust | Hydra 2.7 ECU w/KO Racing tune | Deatschwerks 700cc Injectors | Turbosmart Manual Boost Controller | BEGi Cool Air Intake, Intercooler, Throttle Inlet | Forge Bypass Valve | FCM Elite Coilovers | Racing Beat 1.125" Tubular Front Sway Bar | Whiteline Endlinks | Enkei 15x8 PF01s | Hankook 225/45 R-S3s | Hard Dog HCHTDD Roll Bar | MiataRoadster Short Shift Kit | Audiovox Cruise Control | Sylfex AuxMod | VDO Boost Gauge | ScanGauge II | BlendMount | Cocomats
millsj
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 02:53:16 PM »

The 15" tires won't jack up the car, it will just appear that way.  The gap between the tire and fender will grow.  

A 215/50/15 tire will be .3" smaller in diameter than 215/40/17 and 205/50/15 will be .7" smaller.
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
barmato
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 02:58:36 PM »

Yes Ill be keeping the stock suspension. Is it suppose to really jack the car up like a 4x4 if put 15" on stock suspensions? I ask when I had 15" winter tires on it actually looks like it was sitting lower.

Most 15" wheel/tire combinations for our car are actually a slightly smaller diameter so the car does actually sit a little lower.  That also opens up the gap between the top of the tire and the fender a little.  On top of that, since the (usually) silver wheel has more contrast against the wheel well than the black tire, the smaller wheel gives the illusion of even more gap.  Hence the 4 x 4 stance.  If I were you and knew I was selling the car in 6 months I'd just throw some new tires on it and drive it.  Everything else is just wasting money that you'll never recoup.  

But if you'd prefer to buy some really nice stuff that you can then sell to me used for half price in September then go for it.  I'll be waiting  Grin
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pokeyjo
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 03:18:53 PM »


I will have to sell the car this September because I will be leaving the country.

PS: Im still a student and the $200 difference is a big difference to me.

I'm a big fan of 15" wheels on NA and NB Miatas, but based on the two statements above I would keep the 17s for sure. Six months from now you won't have the car, it will be easier to sell with the OEM wheels on the car, and you'll have a bit of extra cash in the interim.

+1 - or even better go with a set of the Kumho or Sumitomo ultra summer tires for under $400.  If you going to sell it in Sept - why go with a high buck tire?
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wuchao1
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 04:35:06 PM »

I think after hearing all your suggestions, I will stick with the oem wheels for sure.

But which tire should I get? I was pretty sure about getting the ZII but now Im having some second thoughts...
I mean I will be doing as much track days as I can this summer so I still need something thats better than the current P4 I have but also if I can save some buks by going to a different tire without loosing too much of the performance comparing to the ZII then sure why not. Right?

The reason I wanted the ZII is I want to get every handling gain I can get out of the car without modifying the suspension at all so a tire like the ZII or the AD08 seems like a good choice and since I will hold on to the old P4s I can still sell the tires used before I sell the car.

But anyway..
I did a quick search on tirerack and I think I have 4 options if not going with the ZII:

P Zero Nero - $444 for a set after $60 rebate.
Potenza RE760 Sport $472
Sumitomo HTR ZII $300
Yokohama S.Drive $420

All of them are in the Ultra high performance category  except the P Zero which is Max Summer...

I would love to know about how they perform on track conditions and how long they can last in average?
Im not worrying about wet traction that much.

Thank you for all the advise Smiley
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04 VR #3271. FM Complete Intake. XP8. SS Lines. Muffler Delete. HD Ace. ZII 215/45/17. 5000k HID.
bigx5murf
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 06:31:08 PM »

The catless dp offers real increases in power.  I installed it first, while still on stock intake, and catback, the power delivery was significantly earlier, and the increased power was very noticeable.  You will need an o2 spacer to keep from getting a CEL, and get used to the smell.

I've daily drove hankook RS3 for about 7k now, they're in the same performance category.  I've got about a dozen autocrosses on them too, I'm not even close to the wear bars yet.  I'd be looking at the BF Goodrich Rials if I were you, they're supposed to offer significantly more thread life, while still offering UHP grip.
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millsj
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2013, 06:42:27 PM »

How much track experience do you have?  If you have a decent amount of seat time, there is a good chance that you are going to kill the street tires.  Street tires tend to overheat and can chunk with track abuse.  If you are just starting out, tires don't matter all that much.  The grip may hold you back a little, but your driving skill will be the limiting factor.  Just remember that if you can be fast on crap tires, you will be really fast when you start running sticky tires.   afro

I don't your increases in power are from the cat delete, but from the better flowing aftermarket cats.  From what I remember, the power difference between a high flow cat and a cat delete is negligible.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.  I have the FM DP, not because I am a tree hugger, but I don't want to deal with the smell.   
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
rotorglow
Toyotae non carborundum.
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Posts: 2699


« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 07:30:18 PM »


I don't your increases in power are from the cat delete, but from the better flowing aftermarket cats.  From what I remember, the power difference between a high flow cat and a cat delete is negligible.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.  I have the FM DP, not because I am a tree hugger, but I don't want to deal with the smell.    

GRM tested various high-flow cats (including one from FM) a year or two ago (or more maybe), and the gain over a test pipe was negligible. The article's not online, but I'll see if I can find it at home.

In the meantime, I found this terrible scan of the chart, from some GRM review or other: http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1730/cattestresultszu5.jpg

Edit: left off some other thoughts:  OP, if you're really selling the car in 6 months, I would just drive it as is, instead of dumping money into the downpipe etc.  You won't get that money back when you sell, and the cost for 6 months doesn't seem worth it if you're strapped.  My $.02

« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 07:33:06 PM by rotorglow » Logged

2004 VR Sport: FM Big Enchilada w/ Hydra 2.7 + DeatschWerks 700cc injectors + FM crossflow rad + 3.63 rear gears + ES poly diff bushings + comp motor mounts--Koni Sports + Ground Control 550/375 + Racing Beat 1.125" bar + blocks & bolts--Wilwood/AX6 brakes--15x8 6ULs + RE-71Rs--Speedhut + Clearwaters + Auxmod + other misc electrics
wuchao1
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Posts: 323



« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 12:33:31 AM »

rotorglow: I kind of wanted to enjoy the car as much as I want to while Im still here with the MSM...Im from Taiwan and we dont have miatas and the regulation there is just stupid crazy and also the car price is stupid too, so I know for sure that I wont be able to do what Im doing here after going back.. Sad  So thats why I wanted to get the dp and other goodies..  But after seeing the chart I think what Ill do is save the buks and use that for track day fee or on better brake pads.

millsj: I would say Im average.. not great but definitely not new to track dirving Smiley  But I only had one track day experience in the miata, others were all in my previous heavier cars (e90 325i and e39 m5). So I dont know if that will make any difference.  Can you give me some suggestion on a tire thats one step down from the ZII while still have a good traction on the track? I dont know if a lighter car will mean any difference when choosing a tire becuase Im more used to heavier cars.

bigx5murf: I think Im going to just pass on the DP so I can use the money on better brakes. Are you running the RS3 on the miata? I didnt know it have size that will fit our car? And I guess Ill have to dig more info on the BFG...

Thanks again for all the help!!  afro

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04 VR #3271. FM Complete Intake. XP8. SS Lines. Muffler Delete. HD Ace. ZII 215/45/17. 5000k HID.
wuchao1
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Posts: 323



« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 03:41:28 PM »

Finally made up my mind...

I'll be ordering tires maybe next week and I think I will be getting 215/40/17 ZII from tirerack plus the 949 Racing Brake Kit with XP8 pads. That should be a good combo right?

Back up choice (in case smth happened to my fund) will be the PZero Nero Max Performance Summer which is on closeout on tirerack right now plus some Hawk pads (HPS or HP+)

And I believe that will conclude my spending on the MSM til I have to sell it  Cry
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04 VR #3271. FM Complete Intake. XP8. SS Lines. Muffler Delete. HD Ace. ZII 215/45/17. 5000k HID.
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