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Author Topic: '04 looking for suspension help  (Read 16585 times)
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Jeff Goji
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 750


« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2014, 07:34:10 AM »

Bringing this one back from the dead.

I will once it is all done.

Sorry, no pictures to report back with.
I did however just drive on a NB Miata (00 car to be exact with power everything) sporting MSM Bilsteins (mine to be exact) with 550/375 springs and FCM 76mm Red bumpstops trimmed rather nicely for about an inch of bump clearance front and rear with 6" long eibach springs.
The car was slightly lower than stock and had no rear sway-bar.

Handling and road-grip was really impressive, I honestly couldn't believe how well the shocks rode with enough bump clearance and big spring rates that 9 out of 10 know-it-alls would have said could never have worked.
The car was actually more compliant than my 800/500 FCM setup on big surface undulations and only had issues on rippled pavement and over some expansion joints on the freeway where the nod to comfort goes to the FCM setup.

The one downside I found is that the wonky handling of having the front and rear shocks valved almost exactly the same is still present with the new spring rates, and I think a bigger front bar would be of some benefit for slalom maneuvers and autocross use (the car was on the stock 22mm front bar and no rear bar).

Performance per dollar just can't be beat with this setup. It pretty much left me, yes, me of all people, scratching my head on why I would spend money on a big name setup at the end of the day when fo one third of the cost I could have something within 95% of the performance realm and with some parts already native to a MSM.  shockeyes
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HELLIONMX5
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1731



« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2014, 06:55:36 PM »

How many miles were on the msm shocks?

 Or did you have them serviced first? 

How much did you shave off of the bump stops?

I see spring rates but which brand did you go with?

Looking to go that route, maaaaaybe.

Goji with the sway he has, u mean upgrading to a jr sway bar? Or an msm sway bar?

What were the shocks valved to?

Op still liking the vmaxxs? Did you get the extreme or sport? Or non adjustimg vmaxx?
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formerly hiddenmazda... Thanks to Gary, I'm not hidden anymore!
2005 MSM #1153 a.k.a Blackout
konig feathers Black 12.4lbs/205/50/15 kumho asx/custom 3" Enthuza XR/custom 2.5" - 3" enthuza midpipe/black razr grill from the grill guy/20% tint all around including windshield/sun visor delete/cool breeze scoop/"baby Teeth" delete/Dragon tattoos (from the 3 trips to MATG 13,14,and 15)/drilled and slotted rotors/PBR/Axxis Metal Master(XBG)/black decepticon tire valves/FMDP/Mako Shark Teeth/plastidip blacked out emblems, Joe's Maf reloc kit+MBC, fab9 COPs, eBay FMIC, carbonmiata silicon hoses, led foglights, aux in mod. FM stage2 fans, Koyo 37mm radiator. CHEVYSPEED-MSM/W LSX V8 (1 DAY)
CUSTOM NB CENTER CONSOLE PLATES
http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,30085.msg339245/topicseen.html#msg339245
Jeff Goji
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 750


« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2014, 09:07:49 PM »

How many miles were on the msm shocks?

 Or did you have them serviced first? 

How much did you shave off of the bump stops?

I see spring rates but which brand did you go with?

Looking to go that route, maaaaaybe.

Goji with the sway he has, u mean upgrading to a jr sway bar? Or an msm sway bar?

What were the shocks valved to?

1: My Bilsteins, 80K miles on them, sold them for $100 dollars.

2: Nope.

3: 76mm bumpstops shaved to around 30mms each.

4: Eibach.

He should upgrade to a RB 1.125" hollow front bar (for the 99-00 cars) with all of the autocross he does and having an open differential.
He will really need the additional roll-stiffness once he gets his 15X9s and 225/45 RS3s, and might even have to add the rear-bar back to the car at some point.
We'll just play with it and see how it goes.
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cDc_Geo
Fourth Gear
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Posts: 472


H-Town, TX


« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2014, 12:29:31 AM »

I'm currently in the process of doing the same thing. Though I got the springs for a much lower price from summit racing. Will write a post on this later on, maybe even a "How to". I opted got 450/325 springs as its my daily driver.
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Begi Speedy 1 Kit - Generic Ebay intercooler - High Flow 2.5" Downpipe  Wink - 2.5" midpipe and Enthuza Speeder Muffler - Supra 305cc Green Top Injectors - DW200 - ACT HD. - Voodoo Mbc 10psi
- Fortune Auto 500 Series 12kg/8kg, Racing Beat 1.125 Front sway bar, 949racing endlinks
rstange1
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 637



« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2014, 04:36:10 PM »

I'm currently in the process of doing the same thing. Though I got the springs for a much lower price from summit racing. Will write a post on this later on, maybe even a "How to". I opted got 450/325 springs as its my daily driver.
Review and how-to would be awesome!
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'05 Ti MSM with: Flyin' Miata Downpipe, Midpipe, Exhaust | Hydra 2.7 ECU w/KO Racing tune | Deatschwerks 700cc Injectors | Turbosmart Manual Boost Controller | BEGi Cool Air Intake, Intercooler, Throttle Inlet | Forge Bypass Valve | FCM Elite Coilovers | Racing Beat 1.125" Tubular Front Sway Bar | Whiteline Endlinks | Enkei 15x8 PF01s | Hankook 225/45 R-S3s | Hard Dog HCHTDD Roll Bar | MiataRoadster Short Shift Kit | Audiovox Cruise Control | Sylfex AuxMod | VDO Boost Gauge | ScanGauge II | BlendMount | Cocomats
ruizl300
Third Gear
***
Posts: 188


« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2014, 06:20:36 PM »

Yes a How To would be amazing. This is the route I would like to go and I would love to follow a guide when I do. Thank for all the info
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04 Ti #3101, Ebay IC, FM Boost Gauge, MAF relocation kit @ 9.5psi
cDc_Geo
Fourth Gear
****
Posts: 472


H-Town, TX


« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2014, 09:05:05 PM »

Finished installing them during the week end. As to how the cars characteristics changed.... Don't know yet, not until Feb 2nd autocross event.
As for daily driving, on damping and rebound on big bumps or holes, it's a much better. However I'm currently at close to stock height, I was low before so that might have something to do with it. Imperfections such as cracks or expansion joints on the road are smoothed out better than stock, however the drawback is that on small bumps sometimes there is this almost unnoticeable vibration. Not sure if it's because of the stiffer springs overall or something else, but it's something I can live with.
I'm gonna let the springs settle for a week, then dial the height and lastly get a new alignment. Then report back with the right up and my thoughts.
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Begi Speedy 1 Kit - Generic Ebay intercooler - High Flow 2.5" Downpipe  Wink - 2.5" midpipe and Enthuza Speeder Muffler - Supra 305cc Green Top Injectors - DW200 - ACT HD. - Voodoo Mbc 10psi
- Fortune Auto 500 Series 12kg/8kg, Racing Beat 1.125 Front sway bar, 949racing endlinks
Tobra
Fourth Gear
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Posts: 308


« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2014, 06:50:44 AM »

I think if you were to do what Jeff describes, and revalve the front shocks to match up with the higher spring rate better it would work well and be cheap.
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“If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough horsepower.”

Mark Donahue
yahtah
Fourth Gear
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Posts: 276



« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2014, 12:21:17 AM »

I think if you were to do what Jeff describes, and revalve the front shocks to match up with the higher spring rate better it would work well and be cheap.

I've read elsewhere that our stock Billies are good for 600 lb springs without custom valving. I'm actually going to install some eBay coil overs on mine that came with 350 lb springs. The 350's will go on the back, and I got Eibach 600's to go on the front. I road in a non MSM NB with this exact setup (he had purchased a set of MSM shocks for his) and it was quite impressive. I will probably also throw on a RB 1.25 front sway bar to complete the job.

The caveat here is I autoX regularly and like to do track days whenever I can afford to. We'll see how this plays out, but I have always appreciated Jeff's comments and perspective.  thumup
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#3056 Ti MSM, HDHCDDHT, AEM CAI, Corksport Catback, NT01's on 9" 6UL's, 600f+ 375r on stock Billies, MR shifter, various other bits, and the air horn.
'95MSM
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 6076


Turbo clocked downward, new i/c plumbing


WWW
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2014, 04:58:56 AM »

That sounds like it would have a pretty healthy push.
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'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
mayday1
Third Gear
***
Posts: 109


« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2014, 05:03:24 AM »


I think 1.25" RB bar may be too much for most people, but since you run 225 NT01s on a 9" 6UL, you probably
have enough grip to be able to take advantage of the 1.25" front sway bar.

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Jeff Goji
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 750


« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2014, 05:20:47 AM »


I think 1.25" RB bar may be too much for most people, but since you run 225 NT01s on a 9" 6UL, you probably
have enough grip to be able to take advantage of the 1.25" front sway bar.



ONLY if you have enough rear bar or rear spring to balance it out.
Adding R-comps to a 1.25 bar equipped car won't make it magically handle better. The sway-bar arrangement has to be balanced.  Smiley

But YMMV, DWYW, etc.
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Jeff Goji
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 750


« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2014, 05:24:56 AM »

I think if you were to do what Jeff describes, and revalve the front shocks to match up with the higher spring rate better it would work well and be cheap.

I've read elsewhere that our stock Billies are good for 600 lb springs without custom valving. I'm actually going to install some eBay coil overs on mine that came with 350 lb springs. The 350's will go on the back, and I got Eibach 600's to go on the front. I road in a non MSM NB with this exact setup (he had purchased a set of MSM shocks for his) and it was quite impressive. I will probably also throw on a RB 1.25 front sway bar to complete the job.

The caveat here is I autoX regularly and like to do track days whenever I can afford to. We'll see how this plays out, but I have always appreciated Jeff's comments and perspective.  thumup

I came across this bit of "Miatatubo.net wisdom" myself. All I can say is "do the math" and go from there.
I've posted extensively on the math recently on Miata.net and my local forum. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
Micheal Wootton may have greater patience and can go over the math more extensively with you if asked politely and by someone with an open ear and an open mind to listen.  Smiley
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'95MSM
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 6076


Turbo clocked downward, new i/c plumbing


WWW
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2014, 02:35:47 PM »


I think 1.25" RB bar may be too much for most people, but since you run 225 NT01s on a 9" 6UL, you probably
have enough grip to be able to take advantage of the 1.25" front sway bar.

ONLY if you have enough rear bar or rear spring to balance it out.
Adding R-comps to a 1.25 bar equipped car won't make it magically handle better. The sway-bar arrangement has to be balanced.  Smiley

But YMMV, DWYW, etc.

I think Jeff's message might be a little more clear if he had said it won't be any better balanced instead of it won't magically handle better. "Handling" means different things to different people. R-comps will add more grip, even to a bad setup, but they won't fix a car that has a bad push or is really loose. It will just happen at a slightly higher speed.
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'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
yahtah
Fourth Gear
****
Posts: 276



« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2014, 03:18:03 AM »

All I can say is "do the math" and go from there.
I've posted extensively on the math recently on Miata.net and my local forum. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
Micheal Wootton may have greater patience and can go over the math more extensively with you if asked politely and by someone with an open ear and an open mind to listen.  Smiley

OK, I've been searching for the calc resource you talk about. What is "your local forum" and can you give a link or two on m.net?
Logged

#3056 Ti MSM, HDHCDDHT, AEM CAI, Corksport Catback, NT01's on 9" 6UL's, 600f+ 375r on stock Billies, MR shifter, various other bits, and the air horn.
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