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Author Topic: FM's hydra 2.7 r85 update  (Read 4388 times)
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davin
Third Gear
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Posts: 212


« on: January 20, 2015, 03:36:27 AM »

Did anyone install the update yet, I just got the email tonight. Looks like they addressed the issue with the knock sensor not working.
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rotorglow
Toyotae non carborundum.
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 2699


« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 04:51:49 AM »

This might be good in the Hydra section?

Did anyone install the update yet, I just got the email tonight. Looks like they addressed the issue with the knock sensor not working.

Hmm. That isn't how I interpreted Jeremy's note; at least, the "fix" isn't in the firmware.  For one thing, he says the only difference between R84 and R85 involves FlexFuel:

Quote
The only difference between R84 (posted on Hydra’s website) and R85 is that R85 has a modification needed for those who are running a Flex Fuel sensor.

It seems like the knock-control details Jeremy mentions is simply some extra information to account for the months-old change in how knock-control is handled.  Since the box is ignoring noise much more aggressively/specifically, our knock-threshold has to come way down for knock control to be triggered by actual knock (instead of being artificially high, above the noise floor).  And he confirms that he's enabling the knock amplifier, so things get heard.

But no, I haven't installed this firmware in the last 3 hours.  Smiley



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2004 VR Sport: FM Big Enchilada w/ Hydra 2.7 + DeatschWerks 700cc injectors + FM crossflow rad + 3.63 rear gears + ES poly diff bushings + comp motor mounts--Koni Sports + Ground Control 550/375 + Racing Beat 1.125" bar + blocks & bolts--Wilwood/AX6 brakes--15x8 6ULs + RE-71Rs--Speedhut + Clearwaters + Auxmod + other misc electrics
davin
Third Gear
***
Posts: 212


« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 07:43:54 AM »

soooo the knock sensor still doesn't work, great. Mine is 3 months old and I could hear the knock once, but it never registered on the hydra even when data logging. It was my fault though I set the timing to the wrong notch on the timing pulley, thank goodness no damage done hurray 93 octane.
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rotorglow
Toyotae non carborundum.
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 2699


« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2015, 02:05:22 PM »

soooo the knock sensor still doesn't work, great. Mine is 3 months old and I could hear the knock once, but it never registered on the hydra even when data logging. It was my fault though I set the timing to the wrong notch on the timing pulley, thank goodness no damage done hurray 93 octane.

No, it works (at least there's nothing in his update to indicate otherwise) but the strategy has changed, so you need to tweak some things, because everything sounds "quieter" to the box than before.

It is perhaps a bummer that this wasn't more clearly highlighted when the new knock detection strategy went into effect a few firmwares ago. But take a look through Jeremy's email again.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 02:09:52 PM by rotorglow » Logged

2004 VR Sport: FM Big Enchilada w/ Hydra 2.7 + DeatschWerks 700cc injectors + FM crossflow rad + 3.63 rear gears + ES poly diff bushings + comp motor mounts--Koni Sports + Ground Control 550/375 + Racing Beat 1.125" bar + blocks & bolts--Wilwood/AX6 brakes--15x8 6ULs + RE-71Rs--Speedhut + Clearwaters + Auxmod + other misc electrics
yenadar
2005 #36 Black Mica
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 1169


« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 02:57:15 PM »

Yes, it sounds like the reason your knock wasn't picked up because you may still have the older higher knock sensor voltage threshhold, when the new stragety requires a much lower threshhold.
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Keeping the MSM for the forseeable future.
Last mod: FM2 2560 conversion
MSpeedM
Fourth Gear
****
Posts: 269


« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 05:44:19 PM »

Yes, Jeremy just explained how the sensor works. It only listens for knock when knock is possible. You will need to amplify the knock sensor and set the threshold much lower. For example, I only sensed .04 voltage when doing the "knock threshold setup" on the Hydra. Now I'm going to drop the line on the map down to .04v and see how it goes. It does make me a little nervous but maybe my MAP is just really conservative since I run 93 octane and the base map is made for 91 octane.
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2005 Black Mica, Built Motor w/ Forged Internals (Supertech Pistons, Wiseco XX Rings, Manley Rods), FMII w/ gt2560, FM Full 3" DP/Exhaust, Hydra 2.7, Fab9 FMIC, DW 700cc inj, FM 36-2 Timing Wheel, BE Billet Oil Pump, 949 6UL 15x8 on Toyo R888, FM Crossflow Rad, Comp Clutch Stage 2 & LW Flywheel, HKS SSQBOV, Moroso Air/Oil Separator, FM Check Valve, Tein Street Flex, RB Front sway bar w/ RB end links, Hallman Pro RX MBC

Coming Soon: OIL COOLING!  Eventually the FM Happy Meal will be needed as well.
yenadar
2005 #36 Black Mica
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 1169


« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 07:03:56 PM »

I'm staying on r68 until I can get to Ken Hill, and he can mess with that at the same time as seeing if he can get me running smoothly on r85. I've given up trying to update firmware. A random bizzare problem every time i try, so i haven't bothered.
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Keeping the MSM for the forseeable future.
Last mod: FM2 2560 conversion
Canyonfive
National Champion BSP
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1661



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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 07:35:27 PM »

I'm staying on r68 until I can get to Ken Hill, and he can mess with that at the same time as seeing if he can get me running smoothly on r85. I've given up trying to update firmware. A random bizzare problem every time i try, so i haven't bothered.

Which is?

I usually open the software, then close it, then open up the firmware updater and that resolved any connection issues for me.
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www.miataspeed.com My YouTube Channel
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Ebay IC, Custome Koni 2812's by Guy Akney, FM Intake, FM DP, Hallman Pro Rx @ 10psi, GFB VTA BOV, Carbotech Brake Pads F/R, 15 X 10 Custom Wheels, Hooiser A7's,  Memory Fab/ lotus seats , Custom from sway bar , Muffler Delete, Hydra 2.7 EMS Launch Control Flat shift E85 , 550RC's, Fuel Lab fuel filter,
yenadar
2005 #36 Black Mica
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 1169


« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 07:43:15 PM »

It's not connection related.

For example trying to update to R84 and loading Jeremy's appropriate base map resulted in a car that ran awful on the street, well under 160whp even at 10psi on an FM2 2560, extremely poor throttle response and just dead on power. I got it on the dyno and immediately it started doing a complete fuel cut at exactly 5,500rpm on every dyno pull, and the cut would last until the engine reached idle again. Exactly as if the tuner had let off the gas pedal and let the engine coast down, only i could see him playing with the gas pedal trying to get the engine to respond. 3 pulls in a row. I reverted to r68 and loaded up my prior street map and instantly everything was fine again.

Other random issues have been less bizzare, but still unusual since the base map is supposed to work.

Basically I figured that since r68 works just fine on my car, there isn't really a reason to keep getting frustrated by the others. I'll give it one more shot when i get to Ken Hill (unknown when, going through a divorce), and have him figure it out and tune it.
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Keeping the MSM for the forseeable future.
Last mod: FM2 2560 conversion
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