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Author Topic: Cutting MSM springs  (Read 4183 times)
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Jae
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« on: February 06, 2005, 12:21:40 AM »

Has anyone considered cutting the MSM springs by 1/2 a coil to lower the car a bit (and increase spring rate 10% or so).  I think this change would only be good but any thoughts?
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rx7gslse
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2005, 12:38:18 AM »

maybe someone considered it, but its not a good idea...

A) cutting the spring does *not* effect the spring rate, just the travel.
B) The miata is severely limited in suspension travel to start with, so any cutting on the springs will only worsen that..  You'll probably be riding on the bump stops more often that you'd like.  That and if you bottom out the dampers, that's really bad for them Wink
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miatajim
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2005, 01:37:12 AM »

^^^ what he said, not a good idea. It used to be sort of half ass ok on some cars with 2-3-4 inches of travel. We have inch, inch 3/4 to play with. Jim
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Jae
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2005, 10:14:25 PM »

I posted this question after reading Herb Adams' book "Chassis Engineering".  In the spings section, Adams indicates that cutting the sping 1/2 a coil  would increase spring rate (pg 33 for those with the book).  Also, it seems the drop in height should only be minimal for only 1/2 coil in any case.  Don't get me wrong, I plan to save up for Tien coilovers but thought it would be good to ask the question anyway.  Thanks for the feedback, I do tend to agree.
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04VRMSMX5
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2005, 05:26:47 PM »

You are correct. Cutting the 'wire' does change the spring rate. The problem is it's difficult to determine how much lowering or spring rate change you will get by cutting a particular amount. It depends on the diameter and overall length of the wire, as well as how tight the winding is.
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Eric
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2005, 07:06:10 AM »

Cutting springs is a half-assed way of lowering a car. My advice is to continue saving for the coilovers and stick with stock until you get them.
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matt
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 05:21:53 PM »

Cutting springs is a half-assed way of lowering a car

I beg to differ.  If that were true, why would all the guys with Civics do it? Grin
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matt



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ilblissli
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2005, 05:29:39 PM »


I beg to differ. If that were true, why would all the guys with Civics do it? Grin

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miatajim
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2005, 06:07:27 PM »

Cutting springs is a half-assed way of lowering a car

I beg to differ. If that were true, why would all the guys with Civics do it? Grin

Cause Mom gave them the car and they have no $$$ for new springs Smiley
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04VRMSMX5
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2005, 03:13:06 PM »

Cutting springs is a half-assed way of lowering a car

I beg to differ. If that were true, why would all the guys with Civics do it? Grin


You're kidding right? Why do they put those big ass spoilers and loud mufflers on them? Seriously, Even if the characteristics of Civic springs lend themselves to cutting, it doesn't mean the MSM springs will. Because everyone else does, is never a good reason to do something.
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Eric
TasDev68
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2005, 05:35:14 AM »

It is amazing what one can create with an open mind, basic questioning, some engineering knowledge, mechanical skills, a few materials and tools.

The best solutions may not always come out of a box, with current fad brand name, from your friendly UPS truck.......Roger
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speedj
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 05:48:15 PM »

It'd be hard to cut them and be sure that you had equal spring rates and equal ride heights when you were through.  You might end up with messed up corner weights.

If you're going to do it anyway, then make sure to trim them with a chop saw and not a cutting torch, as the heat will alter the wire.  Cut them as equally as you can and then take them to a race shop to measure the rate to insure that they are reasonably matched (within 25# or less). If you've got one that's a higher rate then put it at the LF or RR. 

Also be sure to measure the rod travel at ride height to make sure you've got adequate room between your shock body and bumpstop.  You'll probably need 5/8" or more clearance. You can trim off some if you need to but not so much that the shock rod bottoms in the tube or it'll ruin the shock.  A decent way to measure the shock rod travel is to put an o-ring or small zip-tie around the rod...drive around and then look to see how far the zip-tie has been pushed onto the rod.

You might realign afterwards.  The toe will be off.  It will have a bit more negative camber.  Your caster will still be even.  Don't worry about messing up the bumpsteer curves.  The rear curve is uneffected with moderate lowering and the front curve only gets tweaked into a bit of toe out on bump when lowered, which is acceptable.  If you want to correct for this, then you'll need to move the rack down about 1/4" or move the lower tie rod location up approx 1/8".  I understand that a certain year of Maita had a tie rod end that corrected for this...an "R" model?

Good luck in your efforts at hacking and defiling this nicely crafted suspension.   BC
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04VRMSMX5
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Posts: 1888


« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2005, 06:16:05 PM »

It'd be hard to cut them and be sure that you had equal spring rates and equal ride heights when you were through. You might end up with messed up corner weights.

If you're going to do it anyway, then make sure to trim them with a chop saw and not a cutting torch, as the heat will alter the wire. Cut them as equally as you can and then take them to a race shop to measure the rate to insure that they are reasonably matched (within 25# or less). If you've got one that's a higher rate then put it at the LF or RR.

Also be sure to measure the rod travel at ride height to make sure you've got adequate room between your shock body and bumpstop. You'll probably need 5/8" or more clearance. You can trim off some if you need to but not so much that the shock rod bottoms in the tube or it'll ruin the shock. A decent way to measure the shock rod travel is to put an o-ring or small zip-tie around the rod...drive around and then look to see how far the zip-tie has been pushed onto the rod.

You might realign afterwards. The toe will be off. It will have a bit more negative camber. Your caster will still be even. Don't worry about messing up the bumpsteer curves. The rear curve is uneffected with moderate lowering and the front curve only gets tweaked into a bit of toe out on bump when lowered, which is acceptable. If you want to correct for this, then you'll need to move the rack down about 1/4" or move the lower tie rod location up approx 1/8". I understand that a certain year of Maita had a tie rod end that corrected for this...an "R" model?

Good luck in your efforts at hacking and defiling this nicely crafted suspension. BC


So well stated.  rock
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Eric
MiataSpeedster
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S2000 Killer


« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2005, 10:03:35 PM »

i bought the racing beat street springs, lowers a inch on the front, and .75 in back,  uglystupid2 so i said "f*** this", im cutting off 3/4 of the 1st coil on the back, rides nice, corners nice, and looks nice too, not bad for $160 afro, but if u have the money for the real deal, i'd go for a full setup
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baco99
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2005, 01:01:03 AM »

save your money and get some real springs, cutting ain't the solution.

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