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Author Topic: Me and my Aero  (Read 33405 times)
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mr_hyde
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« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2016, 08:02:35 AM »

Outstanding results!  You will be glad you did that if you end up out at the track in an 85* day in July.  You will also quickly find the aero benefits when you go out in the dry.  It takes a long time to learn to trust it!
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
joeereid
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« Reply #136 on: February 07, 2016, 02:00:32 PM »

  The track/weather conditions were actually conducive to my particular  "what's gonna fly off at what speed" testing requirements. Lower car count and everybody's gotta run slower so I'm not holding anybody up while I tip-toe around the track anticipating possible catastrophic failure at any second. Those 85* days can't get here soon enough.
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
millsj
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« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2016, 03:06:18 PM »

 afro  sounds like a great first session. I will second Hydes comment that it takes a while to learn to trust the aero and convince your brain that you aren't going to go flying off the track. I'm still not 100% there. My sense of self preservation keeps stepping in.  Grin
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
joeereid
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« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2016, 12:53:47 AM »

Pesky "will to live" has been impacting my lap times since day one. Might have something to do with my avatar pic...which is from day one!
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
mr_hyde
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« Reply #139 on: February 09, 2016, 01:50:48 AM »

My sense of self preservation keeps stepping in.  Grin
Mine costs me at least 2 seconds a lap wherever I'm driving...   Sad
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
joeereid
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« Reply #140 on: April 07, 2016, 12:10:38 PM »

Day two of testing completed last week. Pacific Raceways this time. I set the wing at 1* AOA. Splitter on holding up nicely. Car feels definitely more "planted". No oddball behavior noted i.e.; under/oversteer so that's good. Observations; firstly, I think I'm gonna need more torque(preferably)or HP, kinda running into a little bit of an "increased drag" issue on the front straight. Gonna try it again with the wing back at 0* AOA next time out. I think it will still be generating DF with the Gurney Flap at that angle.
 Secondly, on another note, first time out with the new Adjustable Hans Device set to 15*, way more comfortable than the fixed 20* versions I tried last season. Lastly, by new Bell Sport Mag is a little bit too snug. The next size up is way too loose so I may grind away a little of the styrofoam innards to relieve the pressure points. Smashing it down with a ball peen hammer in the pits offered some relief but need a more "dignified" solution than a hammer.
So how to get more HP/torque from the stock turbo/ECU...hmm, I wonder,where would one go for advice regarding my quandary....
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #141 on: April 07, 2016, 12:18:12 PM »

millsj has also noted a loss of straightaway speed with the aero but has been able to steadily decrease his lap times as he trusts the aero more and more.  More HP on the straight would be nice to overcome the drag but there is a lot of laptime to be had by working on the turns.
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

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millsj
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« Reply #142 on: April 07, 2016, 02:33:04 PM »

And the slippery slope continues.   Roll Eyes

When I first installed the aero, I lost about 5 mph down the straight.  Roebling is a high speed track and I am approximately 100-105 mph when I get straight exiting corner 9 heading down the straight.  I used to top out at 125 mph.  I have since gained about 3 mph back on the straight due to faster corner speeds in turn 9.  If I remember correctly, laps times were about the same with the lower top speeds, but are now faster with the gained confidence in cornering speeds.  The car still has more speed, but I don't have the nerve at the moment.  Large slip angles at 100 mph is not my comfort level.   Shocked

At the last event, I had messed with the front splitter (lowered it) and I ended up with a loose car.  I dialed in a little more wing, which fixed the oversteer issue, but it did drop my top speed on the straight.  I think you will find that small changes in the wing or splitter will make a difference in handling and drag.

I'd agree with SMR that you probably have more time in improved driving (comfort level with the aero) than you will by reducing drag.  If the car is pretty neutral, I'd be temped to leave the aero alone and work on gaining confidence and push the envelope slowly in the corners.  Just don't push too hard since the consequences of an off are now much greater.
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
04TitaniumGrayPhilly
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« Reply #143 on: April 07, 2016, 04:50:14 PM »

All the more reasons not to add aero (and more confusion and factors) to my car right now.
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2004 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373 - 328whp and 308wtq/ 2500lbs
ARTech, EFR6258, XIDA, Maxxis RC-1, 3.63 R&P
millsj
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« Reply #144 on: April 07, 2016, 05:32:51 PM »

When you are new (and even experienced) in the track driving world, the best money you can spend is on seat time.  The biggest mod performance wise if to yourself. 
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FM full intake, FM DP and Exhaust, AFCO Shocks (550/400 lb springs), FM O2 Modifier, Hallman MBC with in-cabin controller, Stewart-Warner Boost Gauge, HDHCDD with Harness Bar, RB 1.125" Front Sway Bar, E-bay Delta Fin 27x7x2.5 FMIC, Ultra-Shield Rally Sport seats, Carbotech XP-12/10 pads, SS Brake Lines, PLX DM-100 Multi-Gauge, FM Crossflow Radiator, Spal Fans, FM Oil Cooler, custom in-dash oil pressure warning LEDS, i-Shift LED shift lights, 15x9 bronze 6UL track tires, COT NASCAR wing, DIY front splitter, fully ducted radiator.
'95MSM
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« Reply #145 on: April 08, 2016, 01:44:56 AM »

You guys are getting it figured out.

I was just reading about the LMP1 rules changes for next year. They are taking away power, and Porsche responded that the cars will be slower in the corners as a result. Why? The fastest lap requires a critical balance of power to downforce to drag. Decrease power and the cars need to be trimmed out for less drag to get the best lap time. You get less drag by tuning out some aero.

Now go hire 40 engineers so you can compute the optimum balance at each track you drive. Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
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'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
joeereid
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« Reply #146 on: April 08, 2016, 03:09:55 AM »

 If cheap, easy HP was readily available I'd take it but the car has just been so darn reliable on the track for 9+ years I hate to mess with a good thing. This is one of the things I love about my approach to the Sport driving theater, the little bits that can be worked on with your brain from behind the wheel at speed. It's not all about lap times for me ....it's more about why it's my lap time. More time with the aero is definitely something I'm looking forward to working around/with.
 Talking with my mechanic at the shop today he asked if i'd gotten my tire temps...Doh! Could have possibly gotten some data there as well. However, seeing as how I just switched to NTO1/15"s at the end of last season, after 8 years on the 17"s, I don't really have any comprehensive data to compare against/with. Oh well, something else to dink with next time out.
I'll be posting a "Wanted, 40 engineers" ad on craigslist shortly....


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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
mr_hyde
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Midlife Crisis on Wheels!


« Reply #147 on: April 10, 2016, 03:23:05 AM »

Fortunately, Pacific will be the worst-case for your increased drag factor.  You should find that ORP has almost no drag penalty and a ton of downforce benefit.  The Ridge is the most fair between the two.  Portland will have a small drag penalty but isn't nearly as fast as Pacific or the Ridge.  Adding power is going down the rabbit hole.  Your car will start breaking and the mods to deal with more power all end up with a comma in the price tag.  Your formula works - stick with it!   afro
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2005 Black Mica #290 8/27/04 w/Factory Hard Top
BEGi Intake, FM Downpipe.  Nice and calm with an edge...

1990 Red - MSM Drivetrain, Adaptronic EMS, Xida 700/400, 15x9 6uls, Full Cage, SGDP w/80mm Corksport exhaust, ~260whp @ 15psi on Forged Rods.  bow2
Build Thread: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24668.0.html

2000 BMW M5 - The Falcon - Daily Driver  reddevil

2003 E350 7.3 Powerstroke Ambulance for towing '90MSM to play dates.

1991 BRG - Daughter's daily driver.
joeereid
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Posts: 1156



« Reply #148 on: April 10, 2016, 09:21:01 AM »

Fortunately, Pacific will be the worst-case for your increased drag factor.  You should find that ORP has almost no drag penalty and a ton of downforce benefit.  The Ridge is the most fair between the two.  Portland will have a small drag penalty but isn't nearly as fast as Pacific or the Ridge.  Adding power is going down the rabbit hole.  Your car will start breaking and the mods to deal with more power all end up with a comma in the price tag.  Your formula works - stick with it!   afro
Agreed, and point re; reliability well stated. A hardtop may be good for a little less drags well. Still debating whether I want to stick with the 3.9's or go back to the 3.63's. Have to look at the gear calculator again and see if there's any better pull there re; gearing...I dunno. Pretty much ran all of Pacific in 5th except 3rd~4th out of the T-3B hole and 6th thru T-1 with the 3.9's.
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05 Mica, Sparco Speed, Hard Dog ACE with custom harness bar, Ultrashield 6 point harnesses,FM complete intake, O2 mod, FM downpipe, MR short shifter. Xida 700/400, 3.63 R+P (Spare), 3:9 R+P (current),EWUSA FMIC, Derale hardline delete PS cooler, FM Stage 2 fans w/ OEM connectors, Custom fab IC/Rad ducting, custom cowl intake/heatshield, Ultragauge,Rumblestrip Predictive Lap timer, APR custom mounted rear wing, Custom made streetable/removable front splitter, Run-Cool hood Louvers
'95MSM
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« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2016, 04:09:40 PM »

Fortunately, Pacific will be the worst-case for your increased drag factor.  You should find that ORP has almost no drag penalty and a ton of downforce benefit.  The Ridge is the most fair between the two.  Portland will have a small drag penalty but isn't nearly as fast as Pacific or the Ridge.  Adding power is going down the rabbit hole.  Your car will start breaking and the mods to deal with more power all end up with a comma in the price tag.  Your formula works - stick with it!   afro

Add Spokane County Raceway to your itinerary and every other Pac NW track will move down the rankings a notch. Most cars are at max velocity for 300 to 400 yards. Its a FAST race track. Plus free lodging an hour from the track.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 04:14:45 PM by '95MSM » Logged

'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
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