Mazda-speed.com
February 29, 2020, 08:48:39 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Mazda-speed.com is no longer open and is now a read-only site. For Mazdaspeed Miata discussions, please visit the Mazdaspeed section on Miata.net.
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Looking for advice on suspension upgrade.  (Read 9644 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
SilverMiataRacer
Global Moderator
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 25931



WWW
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 01:02:35 PM »

I have the Bilstein HD's with the stock MSM springs and the ride feels pretty decent to me.

I've had 4 Miatas with different suspensions, stock and aftermarket on all of them.  Without a doubt the worst stock suspension was the MSM suspension.
Logged

Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
TheBigChill
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 555


« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 01:03:10 PM »

I have had the v-maxx on MSM for 3 years now and love them I would just suggest if you are going to do any winter driving protect the threads cover them in a grease or a some kind of CPC. mine corroded so bad after one year I had to use a 24" pipe wrench to adjust them.

+1  My Bilstein PSS9 threads seized up terribly due to winter driving.  I actualy had to buy a new coilover it was so stuck.  Definitely coat the threads.
Logged
gladuboy
Fourth Gear
****
Posts: 253



« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 01:05:40 PM »

I have had the v-maxx on MSM for 3 years now and love them I would just suggest if you are going to do any winter driving protect the threads cover them in a grease or a some kind of CPC. mine corroded so bad after one year I had to use a 24" pipe wrench to adjust them.

+1  My Bilstein PSS9 threads seized up terribly due to winter driving.  I actualy had to buy a new coilover it was so stuck.  Definitely coat the threads.
downside of being stationed in Germany they love their roadsalt.
Logged

#1750 velocity red. begi intake,roadstersport exhaust , SGDP forge bypass valve,mishimoto radiator,evans coolant npg+c, vmaxx xtreme kit, ss brake lines,           
04 strato blue ls (traded)
84 fiero (sold)
85 fiero gt(sold)
timely
Second Gear
**
Posts: 88


« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 02:10:44 PM »

I have had the v-maxx on MSM for 3 years now and love them I would just suggest if you are going to do any winter driving protect the threads cover them in a grease or a some kind of CPC. mine corroded so bad after one year I had to use a 24" pipe wrench to adjust them.

Could they be painted or maybe clear coated or would that clog the threads to the point where they couldn't be adjusted?  I get they're affordable, just seems silly that they can't stand up to the elements, especially a part that's so exposed.
Logged

2004 VR MSM #2451
Engine: FM Full Intake, FM DP, FM Crossflow Radiator, 949 SuperMiata Hybrid Engine Mounts
Suspension: 15x8 Bronze Jongbloeds
Interior: MR SSK, MossMiata footwell lights, Nexus 7 Tablet Headunit
SilverMiataRacer
Global Moderator
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 25931



WWW
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 02:38:04 PM »

Don't judge the VMaxx as being inferior because the threads might corrode.  BigChill told you he had the same issue on his Bilstein PSS9 coilovers and I had issues with my GC coilovers and I live in the south with no snow.

Think about how unfriendly a location this is for this item and realize that this is not a rare issue.  Best idea might be to put some marine waterproof grease on the threads and then turn the ring over it to lube inside the adjusting rings.
Logged

Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
Jeff Goji
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 750


« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2016, 07:04:22 AM »

I have the Bilstein HD's with the stock MSM springs and the ride feels pretty decent to me.

I've had 4 Miatas with different suspensions, stock and aftermarket on all of them.  Without a doubt the worst stock suspension was the MSM suspension.


Totally agreed on the stock suspension being the worst!
The stock MSM suspension is, well, let's be honest, really really bad. It is designed to "jack-down" onto the bumpstops very early on which leads to a sudden loss of grip, poor handling, and an overall terrible and sometimes terrifying experience behind the wheel depending upon your level of expertise and the condition of the roads you travel upon.

Now change the shocks out for the Bilstein HDs, and you're not dealing with a stock suspension anymore as you have much more progressive bump and rebound damping with a much better bump to rebound ratio.
The spring rate and anti-swaybar setup is pretty decent from the factory.
And in my experience, it is very good on a ride comfort and even bumpy-road handling than the stock MSM Bilsteins which could be downright scary.
Replace the OEM stupidly long bumpstops with something shorter and more progressive in their ramp-up and you have a winner!

Pretty easy math really. Replace the shocks that are valved for much more aggressive spring rates for shocks more suitable for the actual spring rates on the car and add softer/more progressive bumpstops and you have a better ride.

Here's a thought for everyone as I've done the math on it. I found that the MSM Bilsteins could handle at the absolute limit somewhere around 550 to 600 lb/in springs in the front and 500 lb/in springs in the rear (the shocks are valved almost exactly the same front and rear, the difference in what spring rate they can handle is because of the difference in the motion ratio front to rear.)
Michael Wootton came to similar numbers on his math, and he actually re-valved MSM shocks from day to day on his SSM MSM.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 07:06:12 AM by Jeff Goji » Logged
msm270
First Gear
*
Posts: 16


« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 11:16:48 PM »

Thanks for all the great advise on making a MSM ride more civilized .  Am I correct in my understanding that I can purchase two  Bilstein HD # 24-065580 (front] and  two 24-065597 (rear) shocks for $102.00 each from Tire Rack together with Fat cat 46/46 bumpstops #5XRNB46/46 for $80.00 . Remove my existing factory shocks , reassemble using the new shocks, new bumpstocks reuse the factory springs and have a complete setup ? Estimating cost to be around $525.00 with shipping. Is this a better option than v-maxxx at $650.00. I'm not concerned with the cost difference but rather with ride quality . Can not justify the $2300.00 for a top tier suspension for the miles I drive.  Thanks from a new MSM owner on a learning curve.


Logged

2004 TI MSM #59
2007 Toyota Solara SLE conv. Wife's ride
SilverMiataRacer
Global Moderator
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 25931



WWW
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2016, 01:16:33 AM »

JMHO

I think the stock MSM springs are to soft.  Yes they will be better with the shorter bump stops and the HD shocks but I think they are too soft.
Logged

Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
Jeff Goji
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 750


« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2016, 01:17:18 AM »

Thanks for all the great advise on making a MSM ride more civilized .  Am I correct in my understanding that I can purchase two  Bilstein HD # 24-065580 (front] and  two 24-065597 (rear) shocks for $102.00 each from Tire Rack together with Fat cat 46/46 bumpstops #5XRNB46/46 for $80.00 . Remove my existing factory shocks , reassemble using the new shocks, new bumpstocks reuse the factory springs and have a complete setup ? Estimating cost to be around $525.00 with shipping. Is this a better option than v-maxxx at $650.00. I'm not concerned with the cost difference but rather with ride quality . Can not justify the $2300.00 for a top tier suspension for the miles I drive.  Thanks from a new MSM owner on a learning curve.

You are correct. Swap the shocks and bumpstops and reuse the factory springs and you are good to go.
Yes, it does ride better than V-Maxx in my experience thanks to the taller/softer OEM springs.
Logged
JCALD
Third Gear
***
Posts: 127



« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2016, 04:16:21 AM »

That would retain ride quality for a daily driver.
Logged

Begi Reflash, LE without FM intercooler, Harddog Sport Roll Bar, Seat Lowering Rails, Hard Top w/Carbon Wrap, PLX multi gauge in Rear View Mirror, 3.63 gears
oldscienceteacher
First Gear
*
Posts: 13



« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2016, 01:19:38 PM »

I am looking at a similar situation to msm270 (80k on daily driver wanting better ride characteristics on poor SC roads).  I am running 15 inch wheels.  What are suggestions for the alignment when the shocks are replaced with the Bilstein HDs?  Thanks for informational help.
Logged

2004 MSM: FM intake and downpipe, Racing Beat exhaust, hardtop, MR SSK, Advanti Storm S1, Stack boost gauge
2011 SE: FM sway bars, Ford transmission fluid
JCALD
Third Gear
***
Posts: 127



« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2016, 02:22:57 PM »

Alignment should not change since ride height remains the same.
Logged

Begi Reflash, LE without FM intercooler, Harddog Sport Roll Bar, Seat Lowering Rails, Hard Top w/Carbon Wrap, PLX multi gauge in Rear View Mirror, 3.63 gears
SilverMiataRacer
Global Moderator
Fifth Gear
*****
Posts: 25931



WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2016, 03:08:47 PM »

Alignment should not change since ride height remains the same.

Don't think the rear ride height will be the same a OEM Bilsteins perches are higher than the HD perches.

From the FM website, they are talking about using their springs on the OEM shocks but if you use the OEM springs on the HD shocks I would think your going to lower the rear height

Warning: If you run these springs on the stock Bilstein shocks that come in the '04-'05 Mazdaspeed, the rear ride height will be high, around 13.5, due to the Bilstein lower perch being higher than most other shocks.


As for the answer to the alignment using the standard alignment is going to be fine for street use or any of the "mild" performance alignment numbers floating around if you want something a little more aggressive.  Remember if your not an aggressive driver the OEM alignment numbers are picked for the best performance handling with the best tire life.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 03:15:01 PM by SilverMiataRacer » Logged

Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
2002tiitomx5
First Gear
*
Posts: 37


« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2016, 02:29:58 AM »

The FM Fox coil over offering is probably a much more optimal suspension and comparable to the Xidas for somewhat less money for a street only vehicle.
It is what I am considering for my 04 VR.
Logged
warty
First Gear
*
Posts: 2


« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2016, 06:31:39 PM »

I have relatively low miles on the conversion, but so far have had good results by sleeving the MSM Bilsteins (Advanced Autosports: http://www.advanced-autosports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=666) and increasing the spring rates to 550# front and 325# rear.  Other than some bumpstop interference (easy to change) while on track, I seem have a much improved ride quality and performance over the stock setup, and I'm at less than $500 total including ISC rear top hats.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Copyright © 2007-2016, Eunos Communications LLC