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Author Topic: MS Labs MS2E (Rev Enhanced MS2) Install, Set-up and Tuning - 2005 MSM  (Read 33991 times)
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TheBigChill
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2016, 12:15:53 PM »

I've read of 3 people that had to unplug the VTCS in order to get the car running correctly, all using Rev's MS2E.
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Deathtrap13
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2016, 01:55:47 PM »

I've read of 3 people that had to unplug the VTCS in order to get the car running correctly, all using Rev's MS2E.
would you mind telling me where the connector is? im going to try it.

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TheBigChill
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2016, 05:14:31 PM »

On the backside of the intake manifold (firewall side), right next to the EGR valve.  Mounted to a brass bracket.
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SilverMiataRacer
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2016, 06:07:53 PM »

Be careful of your fingers around the EGR valve.  The "gasket" is made out of an old razor blade and it will slice you finger if you get your finger in there.
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Larry

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Deathtrap13
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2016, 01:10:20 AM »

On the backside of the intake manifold (firewall side), right next to the EGR valve.  Mounted to a brass bracket.

Got it. thanks.

I unplugged the VTCS, and I swear I notice a difference. yesterday it seemed boggy and the engine sounded different climbing up in RPM...It seemed like it did not want to go past 4000 rpm.

today (after un-plugging VTCS) it seemed way more compliant during tuning. I got the VE table tuned close in a few columns, and I did get a really hard pull and for a second I was like "dang it pulled really hard there" it felt fast.

Did not have any time to get to do more tuning, but I will tomorrow...dang. cops will probably be everywhere tomorrow being Cinco De Mayo and all.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 01:15:22 AM by Deathtrap13 » Logged
TheBigChill
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2016, 12:41:11 PM »

On the backside of the intake manifold (firewall side), right next to the EGR valve.  Mounted to a brass bracket.

Got it. thanks.

I unplugged the VTCS, and I swear I notice a difference. yesterday it seemed boggy and the engine sounded different climbing up in RPM...It seemed like it did not want to go past 4000 rpm.

today (after un-plugging VTCS) it seemed way more compliant during tuning. I got the VE table tuned close in a few columns, and I did get a really hard pull and for a second I was like "dang it pulled really hard there" it felt fast.

Did not have any time to get to do more tuning, but I will tomorrow...dang. cops will probably be everywhere tomorrow being Cinco De Mayo and all.

If I recall correctly, the 3 instances which I read about all had that ~4000 RPM issue.  The general idea is that you want the VTCS plates to open at anything above idle.  They are there only to aid your cold idle stability.

You should contact Rev about it; he should know exactly what to do.

Threads of interest for you: 

http://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/no-power-until-5200rpm-66491/
http://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/standard-vics-vtcs-behaviour-52479/
http://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/no-power-until-5200rpm-66491/




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VcrMiata
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2016, 01:10:13 PM »

 I haven't had an issue with Rev, he usually responds within a day or 2 depending on if a weekend is involved.  However I only contacted him a few times when I initially installed my MS3 basic a year ago.

With respect to VTCS, I did not have to disconnect it.  It's controlled in the programmable on/off outputs area under advanced engine settings.  Look for Inj-H (I think that's it from memory, I can confirm tomorrow).  VTCS is only active during warm up with the following constraints: under 2300 RPM and engine temp under 60C. 
You can disable it on this page which is a better solution than unplugging.  VCTS is normally off and the control needs to enable it to turn it on.

If you switch off/disable VTCS you will need to retune ASE and WUE, I think it will run richer with it off.
My base tune did not have it on and thought I would try it for a while.  I got annoyed with the noise VTCS makes when engaged while warming up so I turned it off again after a few months.

If you have a hesitation around 4K, check your tune to ensure launch control is turned off (also under advanced engine menu).  I and a few others had it turned on in the base tune.  It will cause a hesitation when shifting around 4K where the default hard limit is set.
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2005 Ti MSM - FM LE + RX8 420 injectors + MS3
VcrMiata
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2016, 02:23:06 PM »

Look for Inj-H (I think that's it from memory, I can confirm tomorrow).

Confirmed: for Rev built MS3 the VTCS is on PA7 - Inj H ; I got this info from Rev.
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2005 Ti MSM - FM LE + RX8 420 injectors + MS3
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2016, 04:21:16 PM »

 I haven't had an issue with Rev, he usually responds within a day or 2 depending on if a weekend is involved.  However I only contacted him a few times when I initially installed my MS3 basic a year ago.

With respect to VTCS, I did not have to disconnect it.  It's controlled in the programmable on/off outputs area under advanced engine settings.  Look for Inj-H (I think that's it from memory, I can confirm tomorrow).  VTCS is only active during warm up with the following constraints: under 2300 RPM and engine temp under 60C. 
You can disable it on this page which is a better solution than unplugging.  VCTS is normally off and the control needs to enable it to turn it on.

If you switch off/disable VTCS you will need to retune ASE and WUE, I think it will run richer with it off.
My base tune did not have it on and thought I would try it for a while.  I got annoyed with the noise VTCS makes when engaged while warming up so I turned it off again after a few months.

If you have a hesitation around 4K, check your tune to ensure launch control is turned off (also under advanced engine menu).  I and a few others had it turned on in the base tune.  It will cause a hesitation when shifting around 4K where the default hard limit is set.
Thanks for the input. I will say I might have just been suspicious of the symptoms because I read that thread right before i went out to tune.

Im about to go re-route my turbosmart boost controller to get its source at the throttle body pipe. i just read a thread on miata turbo showing that it's bad to have it source right at the turbo. Im using Flyin Miata's intake and it has a nipple right after the pipe that comes off the turbo, and thats where my boost controller was teed.

so turbo wastegate > MBC > throttle pipe will be the new route

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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kley
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2016, 05:51:08 PM »

I've read of 3 people that had to unplug the VTCS in order to get the car running correctly, all using Rev's MS2E.
Make that 4 people. I had two different non starting episodes, one was VTCS and the other was my OE boost solenoid. It took several emails and delays but Rev eventually answered and told me to disconnect them.
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2004 Titanium MSM # 212 - Boss Frog Double - JoeMazda MAF relocate/CAI/MBC - BEGI Reflash - FM Exhaust - Audiovox/OEM Cruise - Ebay IC - FM Springs / Tokico Illumina shocks - millsj / Trackspeed brake ducts - Mizu radiator - Kirkey Seats - RaceQuip Harnesses - Miata Roadster Shifter
SpeedracerIndy
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2016, 06:51:04 PM »

Wow, this thread is making me nervous.  I JUST sent Rev $950 about 5 minutes ago for an MS3 for my MSM.  And I was hoping to get it running well enough in about a month for a track day.  Might have to postpone that first track day after reading this...
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2005 Lava Orange MSM: Megasquirt MS3 basic @ 12psi, BEGi intake, FM down pipe, FM full exhaust, ebay FMIC, boss frog double hoop roll bar, Rostra cruise control (stock CC Stalk), Speedhut boost gauge in dash.
VcrMiata
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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2016, 11:26:15 PM »

To be realistic...

If you have a knowlegeable tuner in the wings you should be good.  

If you are learning as you go then you are extemely optimistic, unless you have a month of vacation starting now.

Having said the above, I exaggerate a bit,you can make it safe fairly quickly. Getting to a fun daily driver takes time.

Edited.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 11:31:44 PM by VcrMiata » Logged

2005 Ti MSM - FM LE + RX8 420 injectors + MS3
Deathtrap13
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Re:
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2016, 04:27:45 PM »

Update:
plugged VTCS back in, went into CAN1 (enhanced settings) and turned VTCS/VICS off.
went out for a road tune. I swear it started doing it again.

yesterday. just unplugged it again. the boggyness went away.

Oh man im starting to get the fuel table dialed in. and it is pulling HARD.

on the current tune, AFRs are roughly in the richer side of 11's at 9-10psi.
this is on toyota 305cc injectors. they are working fine.

im either going to try adding 1 degree if timing to the whole upper half of the ignition table, or lean out the AFR and fuel table up top and see if I can get it to pull a little harder.

I felt like I got the hardest pulls when AFRs were 12-11.5 in the upper mapKpA cells (5-10) psi

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'95MSM
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2016, 12:17:18 AM »

What the VICS solenoid wanted seemed counter intuitive to me when I was messing with it. It was hot at lower RPMs (I think the recommended cut-over is 5300 or so), so the solenoid drew power during most normal driving. That seemed odd to me, but it is a tiny little solenoid valve. This is a roundabout way of saying what the software says is "on" might not be electrically what the system needs to be "on".  Pulling the plug eliminates all that, so unless you are going to have to swap in the OEM ecu for emissions testing, you're good to go!
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3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
TheBigChill
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 07:34:20 PM »

Quote
I felt like I got the hardest pulls when AFRs were 12-11.5 in the upper mapKpA cells (5-10) psi

And this is why I've always shot for ~11.8 on previous cars.  Feel free to give it a little more fuel at peak boost and high RPM.

Glad you're making progress.
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