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Author Topic: MS Labs MS2E (Rev Enhanced MS2) Install, Set-up and Tuning - 2005 MSM  (Read 13705 times)
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DaveB
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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2016, 04:44:32 PM »

Correct,

FIY,
in perfect world, you have to use Injector flow rate at your effective fuel pressure,
but 750cc/min@43.5psi  will work too

I calculated Deadtime and Batt_corr for your effective fuel pressure at idle based on the deadtimes table you provided above. From my experience, it looks too optimistic, I would say It should be around 1.4ms



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MS2E, 650cc, FM Full Exhaust, MBC, Joe's Intake
www.torontoinjectors.com
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2016, 03:15:23 PM »



From my experience, it looks too optimistic, I would say It should be around 1.4ms

1.4? or did you mean 1.04?

see I thought the whole thing about upgrading to EV14 injectors was having a "smaller/shorter" or more precise deadtime. please forgive my ignorance on the topic. but it just flys right over my head everytime.

on the threads about deadtime on miataturbo.net people with 650FICs or ID's were getting values below 1.0....in the .8-.95 range IIRC.

BTW dave thanks for all your wisdom on the matter, I need to go find some videos of engineers explaining this or somthing because im having a hard time wrapping my head around it.



Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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DaveB
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« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2016, 03:48:59 PM »



From my experience, it looks too optimistic, I would say It should be around 1.4ms

1.4? or did you mean 1.04?

see I thought the whole thing about upgrading to EV14 injectors was having a "smaller/shorter" or more precise deadtime. please forgive my ignorance on the topic. but it just flys right over my head everytime.

on the threads about deadtime on miataturbo.net people with 650FICs or ID's were getting values below 1.0....in the .8-.95 range IIRC.


1. you are entering deadtime @13.2V for MS2, but you car running 14.4V(Megasquirt recalculates deadtime for your current voltage, for 14.4V it is shorter than for 13.2V)

2. deatime raises with fuel pressure rising. Most guys on mt.net running NA with return fuel rail on 43.5psi constantly because of the MAP reffered FPR. Deadtime on this pressure around 0.9ms @14.4V for modern injectors.
MSM/NB has returnless rail and NON MAP referred 61psi fuel pressure regulator - differential pressure on injectors is 70-71psi at idle.

Injector dynamics 725cc@14V@70psi has 0.97ms, your Gram table shows 0.89ms. That's why I said Gram is too optimistic


Long story short:
Try 1.04ms and let us know



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MS2E, 650cc, FM Full Exhaust, MBC, Joe's Intake
www.torontoinjectors.com
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2016, 04:38:55 PM »

ok. but none the less it will work??
just may not idle as consistently or tune as well.

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DaveB
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« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2016, 04:49:12 PM »

Incorrect deadtime impacts more idle and less high load conditions.
You just never reach correct AFR/rpm at idle.
Most people live with it.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 04:50:38 PM by DaveB » Logged

MS2E, 650cc, FM Full Exhaust, MBC, Joe's Intake
www.torontoinjectors.com
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2016, 09:21:57 PM »

well then, Ill save my tune, put it on a flash drive, and then install the injectors and try those settings. i will let you guys know how it works out. FWIW I have a pretty darn smooth idle right now with these injectors and I'm just running 1.0mS dead-time and .20vcorr

warmup, ASE and cold starting are a whole different story...but when its at operating temps it is darn smooth....i guess worse come to worse i'll just try it and see what happens.
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'95MSM
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« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2016, 02:14:24 AM »

DaveB - thanks for your posts on this. I've picked up enough info on deadtime to sort of understand it, but your posts help clarify.

I don't suppose this is something that can be diagnosed by idle behavior? i.e. if it does this, then reduce deadtime, if it does that, increase. I'm guessing no - that incorrect deadtime just messes up idle, and not in a diagnose-able way.
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'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
DaveB
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« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2016, 01:49:04 PM »

I don't suppose this is something that can be diagnosed by idle behavior? i.e. if it does this, then reduce deadtime, if it does that, increase. I'm guessing no - that incorrect deadtime just messes up idle, and not in a diagnose-able way.

You are absolutely right!
deadtime finding/diagnosing is complex problem without simple/intuitive ways to solve.



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MS2E, 650cc, FM Full Exhaust, MBC, Joe's Intake
www.torontoinjectors.com
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2016, 10:11:24 PM »

Still havent swapped those injectors.

last weekend the car died in the middle of the road and managed to pull it home (thankfully we were only like 3 miles away).

was a crazy situation, in the middle of turning out of an intersection my gauges started flickering, all the indicators flashing and just died and started making all kinds of clicky noises. would not start back up when I re-cranked, even re-set the battery and nothing.

when we got home we jumped it off and it ran but then immediately died after being off the cables.

I put a new battery in it and it cranked and idles fine, but since then It has been setting just because I've been busy. I'm kind of scared to try and take it down the road because im worried that it could have been computer or mechanically related.

Do you guys have any insight of settings in tuner studio that could have caused it to die, even while running? I never saw a car die because of a low battery while running, but the guy tested the battery and he said it was only putting out 135 CA. Also I remember when we just took off for our ~30 min ride, the idle was abnormally low like 500-600rpm and then it just kind of fixed itself, but I had no battery light indicated. kind of wish I would have been logging but I didnt because I ran VEAL for the first half of the trip.

The alternator just got replaced not to long ago.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 10:14:11 PM by Deathtrap13 » Logged
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2016, 04:02:15 PM »

Went out for a good 15min drive yesterday with a friend while logging. Volts stayed at 14-14.3 the whole  time. Idle was normal and seems to be fine? Just such a werid situation

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DaveB
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« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2016, 11:48:34 PM »

Still alive?
How is it going?
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MS2E, 650cc, FM Full Exhaust, MBC, Joe's Intake
www.torontoinjectors.com
Deathtrap13
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« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2016, 07:21:54 PM »

Still alive?
How is it going?

So I acquired a honda accord to get around because i'm about scared to drive the thing anywhere. I drive it to the gym once a week (about 5mi) away.

I never would of thought how hard it is to get help with this thing because now on Miataturbo everyone is using MS3 and there are just not that many actively posting Reverant MS2 users out there for me to find any specific info.

It just died on me on the way home about 3 months ago, and turned out to be the battery, because that issue is have yet to come back. But then since then there has just been odd little things that happen that make me worry that I will get stranded again.

1. Randomly coming to stoplights and slowing down my oil pressure gauge will dip all the way down and come back. it is just the stock oil pressure gauge. it should just read high all the time.

2. some times when I hit a really hard pull all of the indicators on the dashboard will light up for a second.....then the battery light comes on....and it will stay on no matter what......the only way it will go away is if I cut the car off and crank back up.

I just need to get the thing professionally set up and tuned because I can not find the answers that I need anywhere....and as for reverant....he will either give a vague answer or only answer one part of any question I ask, and then it takes a week for another response. I respect him, but I'm just saying its like pulling teeth.

I've started tuning it again, and yesterday I started getting a CEL right off throttle from a mild pull. it quickly flashes like 3 times then goes away. the knock indicator does not turn red. and I cant find a guide to the CEL reason numbers anywhere except for an old thread from 2012.
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DaveB
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« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2016, 07:39:55 PM »

Still alive?
How is it going?
....and as for reverant....he will either give a vague answer or only answer one part of any question I ask, and then it takes a week for another response. I respect him, but I'm just saying its like pulling teeth.

He acts exactly! as you described.
But I bought my MS2E from second hands and did not expect too much help from him.

Did you buy MS2E directly from him?


P.S.: I believe all your troubles are not related to MS.

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MS2E, 650cc, FM Full Exhaust, MBC, Joe's Intake
www.torontoinjectors.com
Deathtrap13
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Posts: 175


« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2016, 05:07:04 PM »

Still alive?
How is it going?
....and as for reverant....he will either give a vague answer or only answer one part of any question I ask, and then it takes a week for another response. I respect him, but I'm just saying its like pulling teeth.

He acts exactly! as you described.
But I bought my MS2E from second hands and did not expect too much help from him.

Did you buy MS2E directly from him?

P.S.: I believe all your troubles are not related to MS.


Yes, it was around April of this year.

Kind of funny, the random battery lights haven't happened in a while. and I kid you not, yesterday pulling into my driveway it came on. luckily I had my laptop so I hooked it up and data logged it.  Im going to send it to reverant
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