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Author Topic: Moving On; Beyond MSM  (Read 14758 times)
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TurboToy
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Ti Turbo Toy


« on: July 12, 2016, 04:03:48 AM »

Good day, ladies and gents. Please put on the tea, and saddle up. This goes on a bit, but there's a big prize at the end!
Well brethren n' sisters,  my cherished 2004 MSM build #2641/4000 is blessedly cursed.  Moving at a good clip, I moronically didn't see a dark curb by a highway exit ramp. BOOM OM... oy vei. The two tires, driver side, barely held air. The rims - dented in like friggen Pac-Man. Epic forces at play. I am deeply thankful I didn't crash, and I didn't nick the body at all. The front end was just repainted. She looks sublime...but she gotta go fellas; It gets much worse.
Where to begin... The roof latches no longer line up. Still tight, but off by a couple millimeters. The driver side fender sits an inch lower. Perplexingly, the passenger side fender, now sits... hmm 3/4 inches higher? All of this suspension tomfoolery is just  too unsettling. It drives 'ok', and now has 2 perfect Motegis 5 spokers on passenger side, and two natty ol' original R Harts on the driver side. Plus a rub and a clack once in a while (sure enough, as I took off the banged wheel, a bolt sheared on the front driver side. So I'm rolling on 3 out of 4 bolts there).

Looking at the whole picture, I see two new wheels, 4 new tires, Lord knows what suspension work truly needs done... and timing belt is due, and I have no real mechanic hook ups. I am realistically looking at $3,000+ to get her all sorted. $5k if a Mazda dealer writes up an all new Bilstein set up, on a 12 year old MSM. (If parts exist). Big buccos, right...? So, options a'swirling...

A) Trade in the MSM at a Mazda dealer. I used to sell new cars, Nissans, and would try every customer trick in the book to drive a solid deal. I'd drive that heap there, and see what they offer for a 'rare gem' 04 MSM, 62k track-free miles. All original, mint motor/body-everything 'cept the aforementioned is top form. I'd slip in the recent front $1,500 repaint perhaps. Realistically, they're gonna dump it at auction. I suppose they will take note of suspension issues, though I surely won't walk in wearing a T-Shirt saying 'Ask me about my suspension issues'. Considering (hopefully) just a lack of 4 good wheels and tires, what do think a new Mazda dealer would offer? I bought it at window price, $15k in 2009 w/ 25k clicks. In a fairy tale world I'd hope for $10k, as KBB might say? What do you think? Obviously, in reality, I won't get $10k. Maybe... $8k? I'd rather hear $5k here first, instead of at the 'desk'. Please share opinions, and offers!

I would then need the dealer to source a suitable replacement, which obviously has to be a Miata. I would settle for no less than an NC hardtop Club miata, dark gray with all black top. Absolutely stick, and I think Clubs have the ideal setup, as far as LSD and tight Bilstien suspension. I will sorely miss the turbo/rarity of the MSM though. B) Or I could really go all in, down to one car. I'd trade in both the battered yet beautiful MSM, plus my '09 Legacy Limited. 50k on her, loaded to the gills. She was dad's, and is the perfect compliment to my silly go-kart car. But as John Conner once said... 'I can get out and run faster than this!' I'd hope to get closer to $10k for that, but who knows... I think I want a newer Miata more, plus keep dad's car. But put the two in a blender, what comes out? Yes indeedy, a newer STi to replace both? Compelling thought right? Is there really any car our there that combines raw fun and practicality like an STi? I think not, in my price/year/mileage range. $30k I guess, assuming decent enough trade in $ for the 2 cars. And lastly, C) what's the gadget play? The wild, yet still sensible plan. Keep the Subie, Go to a Lotus dealer, try to find a $25k Elise? Trade in MSM and get a big ass cashiers check to cover the difference? Take a big savings chunk for that one.

In closing, as our cars approach their troublesome teenage years, I bet many of us might be facing such a conundrum. I would greatly appreciate all of yinz's input, and thanks for tuning in to... Moving On; The MSM.
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'04 Titanium, #2,641 - Bone stock; Big Pimpin'.
thomsoad
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 01:48:41 PM »

You kind of go a few different directions on your post.
You mention what needs to be done on the MSM...love the MSM...but looking at a club NC, or Lotus Elise.
You also mention trading both the MSM and the Subie.
My personal thoughts are this:
If you think you would like/love the MSM if it was back to tip top shape why not SELL the Subaru and put the money into building your dream MSM?
Logged

Previous MSM: 2004 TI; FM LE; Falken FK452s

Current MSM: GT Mica;
SUSPENSION/TRANSMISSION: 215/45/17 Pilot Super Sports; Tein Street Advance Coilovers; FM Happy Meal Level 1 System; GarageStar door bushings; MR short shifter
ENGINE: FM Wiseco Pistons; Carrillo A rods; ARP studs; ATI Super Damper; Mazdaspeed competition motor mounts; oversized intake valves, oversized Inconel exhaust valves, ACL Race bearings , FM valve springs; 700CC Deatschwerks injectors:  NGK plugs; Magnecor 8.5s .
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Upgraded Blouche turbo, FM Intake, FM full Exhaust, FM Intercooler
ECU: Hydra 2.7
MISCELLANEOUS:  Autometer Boost Gauge; Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control, Motorcraft transmission fluid, Mobil 1 differential fluid, Castrol Platinum Synthetic Motor oil.

DYNOPACK RESULTS:
WHP: 256 @ 6141 rpm
TORQUE (lb/ft): 267.0 @ 4105 rpm
BOOST (PSI): 15.46 @ 4120 rpm
                     14.00 @ 3750 rpm

My MSM: Street...with attitude. Smiley
TurboToy
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Ti Turbo Toy


« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 08:28:00 PM »

I surely can't sell the Subie, as it is a necessity on Pittsburgh's brutal paths and weather cycles.
It all depends what might needs done. Might be a big day at the Mazda dealer. Maybe they can put together an estimate on suspension work?
There's not many cool places around here that would tinker with a Miata. I have used Mr. Tire before, but ah... hmm...
There's a few ways to go, so I just wanted to fire up opinions and input before getting on with paper work n' plates.
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'04 Titanium, #2,641 - Bone stock; Big Pimpin'.
'95MSM
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Turbo clocked downward, new i/c plumbing


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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 12:34:26 AM »

You live in or near Pittsburgh and there isn't a Miata specialist? If true, that would surprise me. Find the local club (miata.net is a good place to start) and see what resources there are.

Planet Miata is about 5 hours away. Their website says they have a service dept, plus they do Spec Miata prep and maintenance. The guys I know that run SM are always repairing something - it is a highly competitive class with a fair amount of contact.
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'05 running gear + '95 body
3.63 ring & pinion FM content: Blouch compressor mod, FM-Link, i/c & no-MAF intake.   BEGi: Stainless SGDP w/ metal core performance cat.   Custom stuff: Compressor clocked downward w/ new i/c pipe, big radius throttle elbow, 2.5" mid-pipe w/ Hushpower II, dual 2" axle-back w/ open Supertrapps, Toyota 4 pc cop ignition

245.2 whp on default FM-Link maps (with OEM midpipe)
ElyasWolff
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 12:47:40 AM »

I would try harder to see if the body and front subframe are straight if you truly love the car. Then do some research on how to fix your issues.

The latches can be adjusted, and the factory tech info allows a tech to widen holes on hardtop mounts to make them fit correctly.
Timing belt is a perfect wrenching learning experience with lots on videos and walkthroughes.
Snapped stud can be quickly fixed with a new hub.
The sagging drivers fender is most likely just a blown shock or shot spring. My 150k MSM has the same issue with no accidents, parts are just worn out.

If you were on the west coast I would offer you $3k for the car, or you could pay me in beer to teach you how to fix this stuff. I am sure there is someone at a local club that will do the same.
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2004 VR red MSM. Clapped out, beat to heck, and then rescued because this car is worthy project.
Xio
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 01:33:16 AM »

I vote STi, but I am biased.  laugh
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04 MSM GT - Velocity Red: Ebay FMIC, FM downpipe, Innovate PSB-1 Boost/WB O2/Shift Light/Failsafe in Block8head custom vent pod, 15x8 Advanti Storm S1's, 205/50-15 Dunlop ZII *Specs, GS door bushings

11 Subaru STi - Satin White Pearl: Cobb Accessport & DP, Torqued Performance Stage 2 tune, Racecomp Engineering Tarmac 2 coilovers w/ 11K Swift springs, Mishimoto radiator, RCE 25.5mm hollow adjustable sways, Cusco rear LCAs and trailing arms, SPC rear toe arms, Subaru Group N / Whiteline bushings everywhere, Recaro Sportster CS (driver), Defi boost gauge, Innovate LC-1 wideband, SMY gauge cluster, Dunlop ZIIs, Huper Optik Nano-Ceramic Tint
Ex36
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 04:48:50 AM »

Parts aren't a problem for our cars, but as I replace the exhaust manifold studs and just bought all the "while you're at it" parts that would be prudent to replace (in a 116K mile car of unknown maintenance history with half the engine apart) I just spent $500.  Ouch.  That's on top of a previous order of $200 for the TB/WP kit and the $400 FM DP.  And I'm doing the wrenching for free.

I'll be there's a lot that got messed up from your curb hit that you don't see.  Even without that damage, I cannot see any way a dealer would get to $10K for the car.  For any MSM.  The only realistic number you threw out was the $25K Elise.  However, good luck finding one that hasn't been wrecked!  I was recently tempted by one myself, and in my half-hearted searching literally about 100% had been damaged.

I think STi's carry a pretty hefty premium that's not commensurate with what you get.  I'd look for other alternatives.  But obviously I have strong opinions and you might not agree!
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thomsoad
Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1653



« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 01:41:05 PM »

The only realistic number you threw out was the $25K Elise. 

I also forgot to point out that if you are giving up on the MSM due to cost of maintenance ... good luck with the Elise.
Logged

Previous MSM: 2004 TI; FM LE; Falken FK452s

Current MSM: GT Mica;
SUSPENSION/TRANSMISSION: 215/45/17 Pilot Super Sports; Tein Street Advance Coilovers; FM Happy Meal Level 1 System; GarageStar door bushings; MR short shifter
ENGINE: FM Wiseco Pistons; Carrillo A rods; ARP studs; ATI Super Damper; Mazdaspeed competition motor mounts; oversized intake valves, oversized Inconel exhaust valves, ACL Race bearings , FM valve springs; 700CC Deatschwerks injectors:  NGK plugs; Magnecor 8.5s .
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Upgraded Blouche turbo, FM Intake, FM full Exhaust, FM Intercooler
ECU: Hydra 2.7
MISCELLANEOUS:  Autometer Boost Gauge; Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control, Motorcraft transmission fluid, Mobil 1 differential fluid, Castrol Platinum Synthetic Motor oil.

DYNOPACK RESULTS:
WHP: 256 @ 6141 rpm
TORQUE (lb/ft): 267.0 @ 4105 rpm
BOOST (PSI): 15.46 @ 4120 rpm
                     14.00 @ 3750 rpm

My MSM: Street...with attitude. Smiley
SilverMiataRacer
Global Moderator
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Posts: 25931



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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 02:49:24 PM »

Or most any other sportscar
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Larry

4 Miatas but who's counting!!   Cool

White Knight    1991 Crystal White   #99 CSP
Silver Bullet     1992 Silverstone     #17 SM2  FM I+ Turbo  (Gone but not forgotten)
Honey B          1992 Sunburst Yellow #99 SM2 J.R. M45
Whooosh         2004 Titanium MazdaSpeed MX5  #403 of 4000
Subie              2006 Steel Gray WRX STi Cobb Stage 2 (Gone but not forgotten)
No name yet    2008 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat Z06 Corvette
No Name yet    2014 Ashen Grey Metallic Camaro 2SS 1LE

“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.”
– Ernest Hemingway
TurboToy
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Ti Turbo Toy


« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 07:05:10 PM »

Thanks for all the input so far.
Guys I work with have been putting in their suggestions;
350Z - not my style, sounds like a UPS truck on meth (inside at least; they do sound nice outside though). Kinda heavy feel to them.
S2000- i don't vape, so i can't drive one. Also, a little too showy. I like the more approachable, less 'Fast n' Furious' flavor of Miatas

Greatly appreciate your input gents:
Thomsoad - very good point. Lotus maintenance and finding a place to take it are certainly soiling that option.
SilvermiataRacer - good point as well. Miatas are surely tops in  low maintenance needs, thus I'm really not considering much else.
Ex36 - Yes I surely was a fool, thinking $10k. I must have looked that up on KBB a couple years ago. Currently, trade in values on KBB are $6,800-9,000. Selling privately is $9,100. Surely a good chunk would be nicked off due to damage. I hope the perfect body/motor can keep the value up.
Xio - I admire your STi devotion. If I *had* to go to one car, I'd probably lean towards one. But I'm still rather set on staying a 2 car guy.
Elyas Wolf- I have fortunately found a guy through work who is going to take a good look. He works at a shop specializing in antique/classic/sports cars. His shop guy is a 30 year veteran, and they'll get it up and see what we're looking at.
Thanks for the offer for help, by the way. CA is a bit of a hike though.

I got in touch with fellow member TheJeans - he's got my dream Miata, and lives close by. I forget the specifics of what he has done, but it sounds tasty. I'm gonna meet him Friday. I'll get a nice look at his, hopefully a ride. I've never seen a tuned MSM in the flesh.  This will really help me decide what to do, pending the diagnosis on Monday.

If the frame's torqued and/or repairs are too much, I really liked what I read about the NC Club PRHT
http://jalopnik.com/2014-mazda-mx-5-miata-club-edition-the-jalopnik-review-1446605840


 
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'04 Titanium, #2,641 - Bone stock; Big Pimpin'.
thejeans
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 08:46:03 PM »

Thanks for all the input so far.
Guys I work with have been putting in their suggestions;
350Z - not my style, sounds like a UPS truck on meth (inside at least; they do sound nice outside though). Kinda heavy feel to them.
S2000- i don't vape, so i can't drive one. Also, a little too showy. I like the more approachable, less 'Fast n' Furious' flavor of Miatas

Greatly appreciate your input gents:
Thomsoad - very good point. Lotus maintenance and finding a place to take it are certainly soiling that option.
SilvermiataRacer - good point as well. Miatas are surely tops in  low maintenance needs, thus I'm really not considering much else.
Ex36 - Yes I surely was a fool, thinking $10k. I must have looked that up on KBB a couple years ago. Currently, trade in values on KBB are $6,800-9,000. Selling privately is $9,100. Surely a good chunk would be nicked off due to damage. I hope the perfect body/motor can keep the value up.
Xio - I admire your STi devotion. If I *had* to go to one car, I'd probably lean towards one. But I'm still rather set on staying a 2 car guy.
Elyas Wolf- I have fortunately found a guy through work who is going to take a good look. He works at a shop specializing in antique/classic/sports cars. His shop guy is a 30 year veteran, and they'll get it up and see what we're looking at.
Thanks for the offer for help, by the way. CA is a bit of a hike though.

I got in touch with fellow member TheJeans - he's got my dream Miata, and lives close by. I forget the specifics of what he has done, but it sounds tasty. I'm gonna meet him Friday. I'll get a nice look at his, hopefully a ride. I've never seen a tuned MSM in the flesh.  This will really help me decide what to do, pending the diagnosis on Monday.

If the frame's torqued and/or repairs are too much, I really liked what I read about the NC Club PRHT
http://jalopnik.com/2014-mazda-mx-5-miata-club-edition-the-jalopnik-review-1446605840



dont worry guys, a ride in my MSM friday will save him from these crazy thoughts LOL
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TurboToy
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Posts: 366


Ti Turbo Toy


« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 02:09:04 AM »

I wholly foresee it'll be a religious, pivotal experience for me, a ride in Levi's MSM.
I expect that even in gentle, non-abusive driving, your bad boy is gonna make some wicked sweet sounds, shove me around a bit, and bring me back to a lifetime member @ Camp MSM on Friday.
Monday mechanic visit will reveal much about what direction to go...
A)My Miata needs $2k to sort out, not too shabby. I surely will not let her slip away if she can be properly squared up. I'll have another few $k to bring it up to Lil Enchilada levels. Or...
B)Mechanic says the frame's twerked, and/or my suspension's really busted up. Parts aren't available, or it's like $5k to fix... gotta let her go in this case.

That'll be hurdle #1. If my MSM is too far gone, I hope to find some way to sell the car. My buddy might want it, and has dibs pretty much. Or dealer trade in.
Then it's look for a '14 Club PRHT (Jalopnik review/pics of both white and gray ones sold me on it), or maybe take Levi's off his 'too busy to drive the car' hands...
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'04 Titanium, #2,641 - Bone stock; Big Pimpin'.
darkcambria
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Posts: 243


« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2016, 01:01:07 PM »

If you've been driving a bone stock msm, Levi's will be a new car to you. I've driven it around, got a fun amount of power and its well sorted. I think you'll enjoy yourself.
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FM Big Enchilada, 15x9 6UL with 225/45 BFG Rivals
TheBigChill
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Posts: 555


« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 01:30:36 PM »

A 2005-ish Boxster S with the IMS sorted. 

When I think "Do you even Vape, Bro?", I specifically think WRX / STI, not S2000.

What's your budget?
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TurboToy
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Ti Turbo Toy


« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 05:34:25 PM »

Boxster is a sweet car... but sort of like the S2000, it's a little too much. I'd have to get a hi-mileage one to afford it, and the maintenance on a Porsche is not something I'd want to assume.

My budget depends a lot on what I can get for mine. The work pal who is getting involved asked me today, 'do I want to sell it or fix it?'
I replied - let's see what damage looks like. If the frame is alright, and I can fix the suspension for... $2k or so, I'll probably hold on to her. Fix her up, and the tune her up. In this case, I'd be happy to spend 2-5k, and have her all perked up. And I'd try to get the timing belt too.

But... if it's like a $4k fix, and/or parts just don't exist, or the frame's twisted, I'm gonna try to get what I can for it. Either trade in @ dealer, or sell to my work pal. Total guess on this number, but if I were to get $5k for mine, my budget would go one of two ways -
1) Take the $5k, put in $15k, and try to track down a nice '13 or '14 Club PRHT for around $20k
2) This is a more risky route, but with more risk comes more reward right? I'd try to find an MSM for sale that's in mint shape, preferably with a tasty bit of mods done already.

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'04 Titanium, #2,641 - Bone stock; Big Pimpin'.
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